Episode 49 Finding Freedom from Addiction

Struggling with addiction?

My latest conversation with Margaret Muscat from Hilltop Hypnotherapy is an enlightening exploration of the transformative power of strategic psychotherapy and hypnotherapy. Margaret's own battles with anxiety and depression lend a deeply personal touch to her work, as she guides individuals through the complexities of addiction recovery and the search for healing.

We discuss the connections between our daily habits, nutritional choices, and mental well-being. Margaret sheds light on how seemingly innocuous routines can spiral into addictions, and how emotional triggers play a pivotal role in this process. We share strategies for creating new rituals and making mindful choices that can pave the way for sustainable change, while also addressing the psychological and physiological aspects, such as the impact of gut health and nutrient deficiencies on behavior.

To cap off our thought-provoking session, we delve into the emotional and cultural influences that intertwine with our food and alcohol choices, discussing the empowerment that comes from owning one's decisions without being defined by them.

Margaret also reveals insights from her contribution to the book, "Making a Difference," which chronicles her own mental health journey and offers tools for fostering mental clarity and peace.

Book Purchase, Making A Difference by Hille House Publishing:
 https://www.hilltophypnotherapy.com.au/about-the-author/ 

 Margaret's website: https://www.hilltophypnotherapy.com.au/ 

Learn more about Fiona's speaking, radio and consultation services at Informed Health: https://informedhealth.com.au/

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Credit for the music used in this podcast:

The Beat of Nature

Music by Olexy from Pixabay

Transcript

Fiona Kane: 0:31

Hello and welcome to the Wellness Connection podcast with Fiona Kane. I'm your host, fiona Kane, and today I have a guest. Her name is Margaret Muscat.

Margaret Muscat: 0:41

Hi Margaret, hi Fiona, thank you for having me.

Fiona Kane: 0:45

For those who don't know you, would you like to introduce yourself?

Margaret Muscat: 0:49

Yeah, sure. So my name is Margaret Muscat and I'm a clinical hit and a therapist based in Mulgoa, new South Wales, Sydney, Australia, and I've been running my practice now since 2020. Started smack banging COVID that was difficult as we weren't trained in doing Zoom sessions, so that was very new to me. And now I'm, you know, doing Zoom sessions to clients who need my help, using strategic psychotherapy and clinical hypnotherapy, and I also use neuro linguistic programming, which is neuro meaning the mind, linguistic meaning your language, and programming which is resetting your mind, resetting the programs that you have, so removing limiting beliefs and creating change within your mindset to get mental clarity.

Margaret Muscat: 1:49

So I have been always interested in mental health and had my own journey of mental health For 25 years. I tried every method known to men to try and help myself through anxiety and depression and eventually I hit a life change and decided that this is my purpose. This is what I want to do. I want to be able to help others, found the resources that I found to help people with mental health issues. So I help people with anxiety, depression, trauma, alcohol addiction and other substance addictions and they get a better life, feeling joy, having mental clarity and being back in control of their lives. So that's a little bit about me.

Fiona Kane: 2:48

Great, yeah, and I you know, in my experience, many of us in this kind of healing field whether it's mental, physical health, whatever it is we're kind of the wounded healers where people who've actually had similar issues health issues, mental health issues, whatever it is and we've had to try and figure out how to overcome them and it's often what leads us on this path. So it's not unusual that we have our own story which is useful for people to know, I think, because I think sometimes, when people think they're going to someone for help with health or mental health, that that person's got it all together or perfect, don't know how you know, don't know how it feels, and it's quite often the opposite to that, that many of us we've got our, our scars and our histories and our stories to tell and we've kind of gone through our version, our version of those issues and that's kind of that's why we're so interested in, why we get so passionate about it.

Margaret Muscat: 3:49

That is so true and you know some of some of the most amazing people that have been through. You know climbs in their life and and through bumps in their life and through feeling down, and you know coping with things that generally happen in life that aren't easy to deal with, like grief and trauma. You know, having inside experience of that helps me to understand better what a client needs to to change to, to get their resources, and I do that using strategic psychotherapy. It's such a powerful tool when you add strategic psychotherapy with hypnosis to get a result for the client and that turnarounds quite quickly, provided they're open to suggestion.

Fiona Kane: 4:45

Yes, yeah, and actually, on that note, it's probably worth just before we launch into, because I wanted to talk to you about addictions today. But just quickly before we launch into that, I just want to clarify, and I think it's important to do this Sometimes people get confused with hypnotherapy and they associate hypnotherapy with hypnotists who do stage shows. It is absolutely not the same thing.

Margaret Muscat: 5:11

We're sure, we're not.

Fiona Kane: 5:12

And those people who I've been to those shows where they they do that sort of get, get someone to act like a chook or whatever. And what I know for sure, and you'll confirm this for me, is that they can't get you to do that if you didn't want to do that already, because I was a person in the audience who they could not get to do those things, and there was many of us. There's like a certain percentage of people who will go to those shows and they go there thinking I'd love to be a chook, you know, on the stage and they're the people that they can get to do it. So it's not and therapy also, obviously there's ethical considerations that you would only support someone to do something that they choose to do. So just clarify that with me. So people because people get really weird about hypnotherapy, I find 100%, fianna.

Margaret Muscat: 5:54

you know clients think you know you're going to hypnotize me and I'm like no, you're in control the whole time.

Margaret Muscat: 6:02

Yes, the way I explain this is if you're in a car and your GPS signal is gone, meaning, say, your thoughts, your your, your your patterning and the way you think, so you're thinking in a very negative mindset. If you're in your car, your GPS signals gone off and you need someone to help you get to your destination, well, I don't take over control of the car. You're in your car, you've got no signal. I appear in the passenger seat. I ask you where do you want to go? You're open to my suggestion when do you want to go? Then you tell me exactly where you want to get to.

Margaret Muscat: 6:46

You may want to feel happier. You want to explore a time when you had joy. If you could get that back, being in control, not having these ruminating thoughts. And so I guide you to your destination and I'm relying on you to give me direction. Yes, and that's where the power of hypnosis works. So I don't control you. You're still controlling the vehicle, which is your mind. Yes, and I am just your guide, and in that, clients find that that it's okay.

Fiona Kane: 7:23

Yes, yeah.

Margaret Muscat: 7:24

So that's the way I help.

Fiona Kane: 7:26

I just thought it was worth clarifying that, because I've had a hypnotherapy before and I've got friends, including you, who are hypnotherapists and I know that people get a bit weird around it because if the only experience you've had is seeing the TV stuff, you might not understand what it is. So I just thought, before we begin, just clarify that so people understand that. What I wanted to talk about is you and I.

Fiona Kane: 7:49

We work with people in different ways, but we work with people with various addictions. In particular, for me, I work a lot with food addiction and all the different sort of issues that people have with shame and blame and the cycles around food, and I know that you work with that as well. But you also work a lot with alcohol addiction and some others, and there's definitely a crossover between those two, because it's not necessarily about what someone's addicted to. It's kind of more about what's underneath that. So we do like to talk a little bit more about that in regards to alcohol and kind of what are the common things that maybe are behind that behavior? So the choosing the alcohol, but why are they choosing it?

Margaret Muscat: 8:37

Okay. So with any kind of addiction whether it's food, substance, alcohol when people feel stuck and they do not have the ability to release that negative mindset, they have a low tolerance for discomfort and so they're, for whatever reason, emotionally some things happened in their life, whether it's a relationship issue or work issue, issue with family members. They have a low tolerance for discomfort, so they turn to food, alcohol. They sometimes even can turn to another addiction, such as gambling. And so what I do with clients is, you know, I question them. I'm not in the field of being a nutritionist, but I do know what works and what doesn't work. So if they want to change their food over from snacking on chocolates or drinking alcohol to soothe their, relax them, at the end of the day where it's getting to be a problem if they're drinking a whole bottle of alcohol, like a whole bottle of wine before bed, just to relax one wine.

Fiona Kane: 10:00

Yeah.

Margaret Muscat: 10:00

Well, we can change that up. We can address the issues, the emotional issues, and give them the tools and resources to cut back and still be able to enjoy one or two drinks on the weekend, but not have to do it drink every evening, just to soothe themselves and just to be able to relax. So they get a recording, a specific recording tailored to them, and I use their language, specific to them, to help them to move past and to change it up. So they're, rather than grabbing a bottle of alcohol, we go through the whole process of their daily routine, of what they eat, what they consume, what they drink, what their preferred drink is that's healthy for them. So they can change all that up.

Fiona Kane: 10:51

Yeah, yeah, and that's the thing too. It's what you were talking about there was it's kind of identifying what like. What's the purpose? What are they using the alcohol for? Or, in my case, I have worked with some people around alcohol, but I've worked a lot more with food. Of course, it's what are they using it for? And I know with food I see different things.

Fiona Kane: 11:11

So one of the things that you were just talking about there was that whole thing of sometimes that is the only thing that the person does all day. That's for them, that's about them, that gives them any joy or fun or whatever it is, and so in that case then it's looking at, well, what's going on in their life? Why is there no joy or no fun in their life at all anywhere else? And is there other ways of bringing that in that don't require the alcohol? So sometimes it's actually just about the person wanting to some some fun, and that's what it is.

Fiona Kane: 11:47

Sometimes it's what you want, what you're talking about there as well. Sometimes it's kind of not wanting to have a certain feeling, wanting to numb yourself or wanting to like sort of push down or Keep down certain uncomfortable feelings, that discomfort you're talking about before, that Not wanting to have certain feelings, so that there's it's looking at that too, isn't it? So I was looking at, is a person just like wanting to have a bit of fun in their life because I just don't have any joy, or Are they actively trying to push down a feeling or avoid a certain feeling or somehow numb themselves? And that they're different motivations. So it's, it's a different way of approaching, but in both cases it's looking at, obviously, people's habits and things like that. But that's a sort of different causes, so it's a bit of a different way of looking at it.

Margaret Muscat: 12:39

Yeah, definitely. And the other thing is, sometimes it's just habit and boredom If they're alone, and it just could be the habit of, you know, picking up a glass when they're sitting watching the telly at night, and it just becomes a routine and a habit and before they know it's to the point where there, you know could be just falling asleep on the lounge, you know, and and we've got to change that habit they realize it's a problem when they wake up and they go oh, didn't realize I fell asleep. And the alcohols you know, too much for their body. That's when they realize there's that bit of shame and guilt and they think, well, I need to change, but I don't know how.

Margaret Muscat: 13:25

I need help and that's when they will reach out.

Fiona Kane: 13:29

Yeah, yeah, and I find also again with food and you probably see it, with alcohol. But what happens is we get in a bit of, we can get a bit of a shame spiral, so we feel ashamed of of something that maybe we feel that we're not managing or that we can't control or Whatever it is, and then we start having all these I don't have enough, don't have enough self-discipline, I don't have enough self-control, and and we go into all of this kind of shame stuff. And then, of course, if one of the ways that you manage Difficult feelings is by numbing them with alcohol, food, whatever you know, insert thing, insert whatever the issue is, then you tend to go back to that thing. So then it actually just becomes this, this cycle, that sort of, you know, between shame and then not wanting to feel the shame, and so using the thing you go to method for managing that, and then that causing the shame, and it's starting all over again.

Margaret Muscat: 14:24

Yeah, and it's important to find the the why you know, it could be a child sees them and they're embarrassed.

Margaret Muscat: 14:33

It could be there. Their partner threatens to leave because you know you're not looking after yourself, it's affecting our family, you know it's up to you to quit. And they just start. They don't know how to change and feeling those emotions and Not knowing how to address those emotions, not understanding Well, how can I change?

Margaret Muscat: 14:56

Where I'm still sitting in the same house, in the same place, with the same job, and we get them, I get them to look at well, what was it like before? Was there a time you felt that joy? That was there a time you had that control? They then become their tools and I put their tools in the hypnosis and Sometimes I can even come up with their own tools when in hypnosis, because you're in that relaxed state and it's not something that you can do consciously when you're awake and say, oh, okay, I'm going to relax. Yes, so in that environment where they're coming to actually realize that they're there to create change, that they can, by being guided but being in control at the same time, to make those changes, so they're not in that discomfort, they're not in that repetitive pattern, and and I've even had a lady that came to me and she would just snack on Jung food at night, just constantly, and she said I'm just bored, I don't know what else to do.

Margaret Muscat: 15:57

I'm a single person and I would just. You know, when I sit down to watch the TV, I enjoy having a snack. And so I said to her what's something else that you can eat that's not chocolate, that's not snacks. Is is something, and we got down to the texture and we found it was the crunch. She likes the crunch. So we swapped to the foods that she liked, that were healthy, and she would prepare them before she would go sit down, so that way she doesn't reach for the snack. She's reaching for Cucumber sticks, carrot sticks and things that have that crunch and it gives her that comfort, but in a healthy way. And that's so important, as you would know, to have a healthy mind, a healthy body.

Fiona Kane: 16:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I, what I often do with my clients is you know it might be well, can you just go and make a pot of chamomile tea or something like that, something that, and you pop it in a. You might have a nice Fancy teapot or a fancy cup or something like that. But, as what it essentially is and is, it's creating a rituals, it's creating new rituals, because I think a lot of these things they become, they become habit, they become ritual and and it's rituals do have a certain you know, there's a benefit around it and there's, you know, we get a comfort in it. And so I find that creating new rituals, whatever they are, but sort of working with that person to create that ritual, is, again, it's just replacing one ritual with another. So you're not sort of saying, whatever you do, just just sit there and just avoid the chocolate or the alcohol or whatever it is. It's actually actively creating new rituals that will support that person 100% that that is the best way to go.

Margaret Muscat: 17:37

We're replacing patterns, negative patterns, with positive patterns, and you know the provided a client is open to suggestion. They can change so many different things within their life, especially when it comes to around addiction.

Fiona Kane: 17:54

Yes, yeah, and one thing that I know from from the nutritional point of view as well Obviously I'm not just looking at someone's choices or their habits. I'm also looking at what other things that could be behind it or now are causing problems because of that addiction. And so, for example, someone might have their gut bacteria is out of whack and it causes them to crave sugar all of the time. They could be low in magnesium or B vitamins, particularly with alcohol. Alcohol will actually drive that reduced magnesium and also In in severe cases and people with chronic issues with alcohol, they end up with a B1 deficiency and that actually causes a syndrome that will cause that short-term memory loss and that difficulty Maintaining or get getting new memories, but also over time it sort of ends up being quite severe and lots of confusion and it affects your vision and the tremors and all of the disorientation, all the things. So obviously, for me, I'm looking at nutritional deficiencies, I'm looking at the gut bacteria, they and and also just things like so a lot of these things, whether it's sugar or whether it's alcohol, they absolutely do affect your liver in, in fact, more cases now of I can't remember the numbers, but I know a lot more cases now of Fatty liver disease are non-alcoholic fatty liver disease that are caused by sugary foods as opposed to alcohol. So I see fatty liver disease a lot in my clinic and and it's looking at that, it's looking at someone's gut function and it's treating those conditions and also just things like because, again, just from a mental health perspective and and those who follow this podcast will know this, I've done a few episodes along these lines but there's a lot of nutritional aspects to Supporting your mental health, because even just things like the neurotransmitters in your brain they, you know, serotonin and dopamine and melatonin and all of those well, they're made from amino acids, which are proteins.

Fiona Kane: 20:09

So we actually do need to eat protein, which is, you know, your fish or your chicken or your nuts and seeds or your eggs, those kinds of things. We need to eat our protein and we also need to be able to digest and absorb protein To then be able to make those neurotransmitters. But you also need be vitamins and magnesium and vitamin C and all sorts of other nutrients to help you make those neurotransmitters. So what you eat really matters, because it's actually what your body uses to make structures, to make To make hormones, to make neurotransmitters and all of those things. So there's certainly a lot of nutritional things that people can do and, of course, if you're treating people with mental health issues, as I do as well, you will understand the benefit of exercise and getting outside and all of those things.

Fiona Kane: 20:57

So so it's also important to look at these things from a holistic point of view and looking at kind of all of the factors that might be affecting someone. It's not, it's often not just one thing, it's. It becomes this, and when it's kind of chicken or egg, how did something begin? What's causing it? What's right, I don't know, but in the end all of these things feed into each other. So if you kind of just look at one thing and you're not looking at the other, like if you're trying to get someone to make changes but they've got a severe B vitamin deficiency or magnesium deficiency, they're gonna be really craving carbohydrates and they're gonna be really confused, you know. So sometimes you might need to sort of manage someone Physically to support the ability to do the other changes, you know.

Fiona Kane: 21:37

So so all of it's important, but it's it's really useful for people to understand this as well, because Instead of seeing that, you know you're some sort of failure. Just look, you're in a situation where it's kind of like Maybe a lot of things are working against you all at the same time for a whole bunch of reasons, and you can work with her, with professionals, to help explore those things and and resolve those things bit by bit. But it's not because you just don't have any self-discipline or self-control. There's so much more that can be behind it Physically, emotionally, and also you were talking before about it. You know, I think you mentioned someone who's experienced any kind of trauma or other issues or grief or All of those things. All of those things contribute. So it's actually just looking at all of the things and and seeing what needs, what needs attention and where they need support 100%.

Margaret Muscat: 22:31

You know you took the words right out of my mouth. It's just about dimension. You know it's so important to put exercise in there. You know the time that you're spending exercising. That's time, you, that you're able to release those thoughts and you know, if they can get back to changing their diet and then also adding exercise in, they feel a sense of achievement and that gets that serotonin, that dopamine reactivating and it's, it's, it's 100%, you know, mind, body and getting them happy again with their spirit.

Margaret Muscat: 23:11

So if everything aligns and if we can get them in a, in a great routine, like they once had before the problem came about, then it's quite easy for them to go back into good habits rather than sitting and staying in negative habits that give them the low self-esteem or it's, you know, going around in circles and being able to break those cycles. It just it can. If I could take photos of a client before they walk into my practice and then after the change on their face, they're glow and it's strange to say, but it's true, I can physically see it that there's a change, there's a shift and I'm sure, the way you work with nutrition, that you know their skin, everything, every part of them, starts to change, and not just that.

Fiona Kane: 24:06

There's that glow, that inner glow that you see in people isn't there. That 100% inside they're glowing, is something. The difference when you, when you first meet someone and they're kind of, their eyes are kind of they're not quite focused, they're not quite there. They're just not quite there. It's like they're not fully embodied or something I don't know. And that's that's the other thing too, actually, that I work a lot within my clients is that she like embodying and being present, because I think that that's an issue that we have as well and that's probably going to be more of an issue these days, with all of these metaverses and all I don't know. I just don't think about all these things coming in the future, where people walk around wearing those glasses and being often they're looking at watching six YouTube videos while they're walking down the street or something I don't know. It's going to become a bigger and bigger problem. But essentially, what I find is, in my experience, people, for various reasons, they disembodied so they could be dead, could disembodied because of some previous abuse or some issue like that, or they could disembodied because they just not happy or comfortable in their bodies and sometimes and various look there's various psychological and physical reasons why someone does this, but what I find that that can be challenging as well. So so for example, I find with a client is maybe if they've got a lot of pain or they're carrying a lot of weight or it could be the combination of the two things or whatever it is, but often they just don't want to be present in the body because they feel uncomfortable there, so they they just kind of detach. But then what happens there is, and then what they do is they do a whole lot of unconscious behaviors. So, like you were talking about before, sitting on the lounge with the other packet of chips or whatever it is you know, and they honestly they could just eat the whole packet and not realize that that even started, sort of thing. And so what I find as well is that she I find that it's I don't in my experience anyway I think it's hard to heal your body if you're just not present and you're just noticing.

Fiona Kane: 26:03

So what I do is actually getting people to. I sort of do a breathing technique before they eat, so I get them to do like four seconds in seven seconds out, just for one minute. Is that breathing technique? Because it takes them from flight of flight and puts them into rest and digest before they eat a meal. And we need to be in rest and digest because rest and digest is how your body actually digests the food. It allows it to make all of the digestive enzymes and things so you can digest and absorb the nutrients. So that's getting them present, getting their body wired ready for it. Because if you're eating unconsciously, your body probably doesn't even realize there's food coming and suddenly there's food and your body's in some other stress mode or something, so it's not making digestive enzymes. And then there's persons going to end up with a lot of digestive discomfort and issues. But also we're going to end up with the issues.

Fiona Kane: 26:55

I think that when we disembodied and you see it, actually there's a white sort of name, who they are don't want to get in trouble on YouTube, but there are some YouTubers it's very distressing actually who are actively eating themselves to death is the nicest way I could say it and you can see that they and they're doing it for likes and for all that sort of stuff. You can see them disembodying because you just cannot. You cannot continually abuse your body and do things really harmful to your body and harmful to health over and over again and be present while you're doing it. So the only way to do it is kind of to just just detach yourself. So is that something that you, that you witness and that you see with your clients?

Margaret Muscat: 27:46

yeah, definitely. When it comes to trauma and past trauma, you know, what I do is use absurdity to trump trauma, because you cannot run the pattern of trauma and absurdity at the same time. So it's a form of dissociation. So there's an NLP neuro linguistic programming technique that I use, which is called the control room and that gets the client back in control. So when they think of that trauma, they have got a resource and, rather than it being, they go back and feel the emotions. We break the emotion to the trauma by putting it absurdity, and it does sound a bit weird, but the fact is it works and it works really, really well.

Margaret Muscat: 28:45

So, you know, when I've got clients that are in both depression, which is past orientated, and I've got clients that are running anxiety, which is future orientation, like you said, we need to be here in the present moment, and so what I help clients to do is to detach from their past, and the future is unknown.

Margaret Muscat: 29:14

We can't know all the outcomes and getting them comfortable in reality testing I mean, sometimes they can get so caught up in thinking that if they're in a room and this is the way I do reality testing if you're in a room and there's a cat in the room, there's not much harm coming your way. You know it's just a cat, but if you're imagining a lion in the room, well, you want to run to the door. So we do that reality testing and then when they realize that they're fear, they're fearing something that really isn't there, that then they can reassess and go. You're right. If I, if I just can concentrate on today, then I'm going to be able to much better get through the day. The more thing about the future, so it's important to bring them back into the present and that is that is a big key factor yes, yeah, yeah, and in most cases it's that kind of you look around the room, where are you?

Fiona Kane: 30:23

what's going on? You know in most cases you are safe at this time, no matter what's going on in your life at this moment, at this immediate moment, you're okay. And I think it is important to do that because there's there's a lot of things going on in the world and you know life, life is challenging, life is full of challenges and ups and downs and all of that. So there's times where things won't be okay and there's times where they will be okay in everything in between. But it's really more about and this is actually something I discussed in another episode recently, just a solo episode, but I think that sometimes people get confused and think that, think that having negative feelings at all is a bad thing. All that or it's not normal, or it means they've got you know, they've got a mental health issue.

Fiona Kane: 31:15

And the truth is that the human experience we experience all emotions and we experience sadness and loss and grief, and we also have happiness and and all of the things in between and a normal life experience. You will experience all of those and that itself is not a pathology. It's not a pathology, to feel sad, like my mother passed away nearly three years ago and I had really intense grief for a long time and for a long time I was just sad and I was chatting to my doctor about it and I just said, look, yeah, I am sad. I'm really like I was just profoundly sad for a really long time. But I don't think that is a diagnosis of a pathology. I think it's called grief and it was OK to be sad.

Fiona Kane: 32:02

Now, if it was affecting my ability to function and live and if I was in that profound sadness for the rest of my life and was never able to move on, then maybe at some point obviously the DSM I don't know the rules, but at some point that becomes an issue. But I understood that I was just grieving for someone I loved and that was a normal response and that that was OK. And so what I did is I just accepted and allowed for the profound sadness and just so that it's part of my life at the moment, but that's normal. So I think that we kind of get whatever it is and we've all had our version of that. I'm not sort of not special by any means with that, but I think it's. Sometimes we try and pathologize things that are just normal human emotions.

Margaret Muscat: 32:52

Yeah, and grief is something that's difficult to navigate through and I actually help people with grief because it does end up from sadness to depression and reminiscing on past and memories and thinking of future events that now they're no longer going to be here for certain events and dates and memories can sometimes lead us to be stuck, and so I also help clients with grief and I help them to focus on the feelings and the thoughts that they pay attention to and where to let go and how to navigate to get to a point where they can actually remember their loved one or past pet even Pets can be like a member of the family and just to get them to remember the good times and to be able to smile about that and put that in place of feeling that constant sadness and that void that sometimes, that most of the time, is involved with grief. So there's many different things that I can work with, provided the clients open and willing, and to build that rapport to move them forward.

Fiona Kane: 34:27

Yeah, and, like you said, there are lots of things that you can do to support yourself. I was just pointing out that it's also OK to know those feelings. It doesn't mean that we're.

Margaret Muscat: 34:39

OK, it's a bit of a lie.

Fiona Kane: 34:40

It's only a lie with you.

Margaret Muscat: 34:41

Yeah.

Fiona Kane: 34:42

Yeah, it's a lie, I don't know. Because of I don't know, I can only speak on Australian. I live in Sydney and I come from that kind of Irish English, whatever background Scottish. So I can only speak in my personal experience. But in my personal experience, our culture, what we do is you know, when I could, if a child is screaming or yelling or crying or something like that, what we try and do is we try and stop them as clear as we can, and so usually it's with foods here's the ice cream, here's the chocolate, here's the whatever.

Fiona Kane: 35:18

And what we're trying to do well, the way I see it is, what we're trying to do is we're trying to stop our own discomfort because we're not comfortable with strong feelings and emotions, and so we're trying to stop their strong feelings and emotions. Now, not saying there's never a reason for that, of course you know, like you know you're sitting in church or you're at a wedding or I don't know there's a reason is why, like I'm not making saying it as a judgmental thing, but what happens is that we are uncomfortable, a lot of us with a lot of those feelings, because it's never been OK in our families to have them. It's never been acceptable to have strong feelings and show that you have those strong feelings, and so we have learned how to treat children with sugar to manage those feelings and teach them. I think that teaches a couple of very powerful lessons to those children. I think it teaches that it's not OK to have strong feelings, certainly not OK to show those strong feelings, and sugar fixes it.

Margaret Muscat: 36:21

So I actually personally think that's one of the things that starts us on that road to reaching for something to soothe yeah, it's in our nature to want to soothe ourselves and, you know, having one or two pieces of chocolate is OK, but when you're consuming half a bar or a whole bar, then that's a problem. That's when it becomes a problem and the problem needs to be addressed.

Fiona Kane: 36:50

Yes, yeah, and you know breast milk is sweet and there's a soothing that is associated with that. So, like you said, it is in our nature and it's not unusual or anything. But I just find that in our culture anyway, the culture that I've grown up in, has sort of always been a little bit, you know, not OK to have feelings necessarily. So a lot of us have not learned how to actually have feelings. So I just think it's OK to learn how to have a feeling and how to sit with that feeling for five minutes. That's true, it's. You know.

Fiona Kane: 37:23

Say to my client, like OK, you can have the chocolate, but how about you just let yourself have five minutes of just having the feeling, just so that you'll learn that you're not going to die from the feeling, because in most cases I'm not talking about someone's having, you know, I suicidal ideology or something like that. I shouldn't use that language on YouTube, it will get me canceled. But anyway, a certain word you trigger words on YouTube. So not obviously in serious situations like that, but for the majority of us, we're just having a feeling or having an emotion, whatever it is. It's good to actually learn to sit with it for at least five minutes and just know that you do, will survive, and it's OK to have an uncomfortable feeling, because feelings are feelings and actually, and even with things like grief, you need to move through it, to move through past it. So just you don't have a feeling or just pushing it down Doesn't solve it 100 percent.

Fiona Kane: 38:13

Yeah, so is there anything else that that you think it's worth talking about or mentioning in regards to addictions?

Margaret Muscat: 38:26

Well, when it comes to addictions, it's important to realise, to have that realisation and to want to reach out and get help and whatever that reason is being loved ones you know taking the brunt of what they're seeing. And if you're not, you know you're, knowing that you're sometimes the cause. It doesn't mean that it's you know, you have some form of control that the addiction hasn't consumed you. So to get to get help, and there are ways to change patterns and it's not all or nothing. Like I don't set clients up for failure if they want to continue to have alcohol to celebrate life, if they're at a wedding and they want to toast the married couple, to be able to have a glass or two of champagne or wine, whatever they choose, but not to excess, that they can't remember the event. So setting themself up for realistic goals that are achievable. And it's the same with food and it's the same with, you know, other food or alcohol. When it comes to other things like gambling and other types of substance abuse, it's trying to get them to understand, you know, their, their why. And once they understand their why, that is key to getting them to change, to getting them to quit. So it just depends on what we're working with.

Margaret Muscat: 40:21

But yeah, I've, I've seen many a client that have been able to shift from drinking all weekend and drinking every day to only having a couple of drinks on the weekend. And you know, I get that bedazzled. Look, I can't believe it happened so quick. How did you do that? And then I put it back to them. I didn't do anything, I was just your guide. You took it on board. You wanted to create change. You're now in control and they're like wow, that was just. You know, it's so much easier than people think that it is. It's an achievable thing, it's an achievable thing.

Fiona Kane: 41:01

I think it's worth mentioning too, because I've actually done another episode on this, specifically talking about language. So I will clarify too, because I've talked today about food addiction Generally I don't like to talk about, I don't like to call an addiction in regards to food, and the reason I don't like to use that language is like I might use a term like habituation, and you might say you know, same same, different and that sort of is. But the reason I don't use that language around food, or I usually don't use that language around food, is because food is actually something we need to survive, we need to live, we need food for survival. We don't need alcohol for survival, but we certainly need food for survival.

Fiona Kane: 41:41

And most of us understand when we talk about addictions and when we talk about solutions or you know programs to help people deal with addictions, many of those, if not all of those, are abstinence based programs. So we see that you know the solution to and I know you're saying here that it's not always the case but largely the programs like AA and NA and all of those things they're abstinence based. So it's like you just cannot have the thing or you can't do that with food, because we actually need food for survival. So the problem with calling food an addiction in my idea of it anyway is that it sets a person up for failure already because they're actually battling against. You know, I shouldn't have food, food's bad, so I just I use I like to use different language in regards to food because it is something that's vital for survival and I think we need to not associate it with abstinence. Rather, balance, not abstinence, and I know you were talking about that before, but just from a language point of view, I think that that's important, important distinction anyway.

Margaret Muscat: 42:48

Yeah, it's definitely more about healthy eating, changing your eating habits, so you know, and having ex doing exercise is important as well, so you can enjoy life, enjoy food, everything in moderation, and just to have a healthier mind and body and being in control of you, know what you're putting into your body and living a healthy life.

Fiona Kane: 43:20

Yeah, and this is a question without notice, so you can choose to not answer it or not.

Fiona Kane: 43:25

But I was just thinking then too because you talk about language with the NLP and those sorts of things is I have a problem with the format of whether it be AA or I know I've got clients have talked about over readers, anonymous. I'm not overall like I think they can do a lot of great things, but I do have a problem with someone getting up at every meeting and saying hi, I'm Fiona and I'm an over reader or I'm an alcoholic or whatever it is. I just think that that when you I personally think that when you label yourself as that thing well, that's who you are you can't change that when to me it's like okay, it could be hi, I'm Fiona, and sometimes I overeat, and that's still true, but it's not who I am, it's a behavior, it's something I do. So I can change your behavior, but I can't necessarily change who I am. So I'm quite uncomfortable with the sort of labeling myself as the thing what's your? What are your thoughts around that.

Margaret Muscat: 44:26

I so agree with that, fiona. You know, once you put a label on something, it's permanent. Yeah, if we, if we minimum, if we take away some of that labeling and that shaming, you know you are not fully alcohol, you are not fully food. We are made up of different parts and and we are human, we are human beings and we are what we put into ourselves. And to have a label is just concrete, yeah, and if we can break that, it would just be so much easier to move forward from it. Yeah.

Fiona Kane: 45:11

I understand like I get that there. I suspect what's behind it is people taking personal responsibility, so people saying this is something I'm doing, this is something I'm going to do something about. So I get that and I I support that. I just think you can say this is something I do without saying this is something I am.

Margaret Muscat: 45:31

Yeah, maybe we need to reassess the language that we're saying to make it easier for us. It's not about not taking responsibility, but to take away that label. Yeah, we know we're all in that group for the same reason. Yes, but why do we have to label ourselves? It's just so rigid in thinking. I think it's label the behavior.

Fiona Kane: 45:57

Label the behavior but don't label the person, that's all. My issue was that label, identify and label the behavior. And yes, we're, we're there, we're about addressing a behavior, but this is about a behavior, it's not about who you are. Because I think it just leads back to all that shame stuff. Because if, if, essentially, if, it's like well, okay, I'm the one who's deficient, I'm, I'm the, I've just got a deficit, I've got something wrong with me. Everybody else can figure it out, but you know, I'm somehow flawed, and so, well, no, well, you are flawed because you're human and we all are, that's fine. But I just think it's like no, no, it's, this is a behavior, it's not who you are, it's something that you do and it's something that you can choose not to do or you can get support around making those choices and making better choices. So I just think that that's something that's in in the kind of addiction world. I think that that language really drives me nuts.

Margaret Muscat: 46:51

It is a very limiting belief. So once you've got that limiting belief, it's stopping you from transitioning forward and we need to be very aware of and pay attention to you know those limiting beliefs to be able to break the pattern and break the cycle.

Fiona Kane: 47:10

Yes. Well, it's a difference between feeling disempowered I am this well, okay, not much we can do about that or I have this habit. However, I've got strategies and I'm using these strategies. One gives one gives you power and gives you a level of control over it, and the other apps what? It just takes the power away.

Margaret Muscat: 47:32

Exactly, and and and what we are is. We're both about empowering people to take control, to take action where they feel stuck to move forward and and to get that control back so they can feel empowered and live a better and healthier and happier life.

Fiona Kane: 47:52

Yes, yeah, exactly. And look, I've had my own issues with with the chocolate challenges around chocolate, habituation around chocolate, and I also, when I was younger I actually was I had this year is actually 30 years since I drank alcohol and while I would say I probably never got to a point where it totally was well, I probably wouldn't have called myself an alcoholic, but in saying that I was absolutely heading for that. So I had very, I had a very Not healthy relationship with alcohol and I was using alcohol, starting to use alcohol to soothe myself and to calm myself, and I was doing that, starting to do that a lot, doing binge drinking, and my body stopped me. So my liver kind of just said, yeah, no, you're not going to do this anymore. So basically I lost all tolerance to alcohol where one drink would make me violently ill within about 20 minutes and I'd be violently ill for about three days and after that happened a couple of times, I stopped.

Margaret Muscat: 48:58

Body knows how to talk to you, and even myself I've had that personal experience where I was very ill once in hospital and since then I've had issues with my bladder. So if I take on board alcohol, that causes all lots of issues with my bladder, even sweet things. So I've had to change my diet and for me my resource is well, do you want to end up in hospital having surgery every year? And my answer to that is no. I don't like the pain of surgery in recovery time. So I've really minimised and changed the way I celebrate life. For me it's if I have something to celebrate, it'll be soda water with a taste of drop of alcohol, just to know I've got that taste and I'm still part of the social celebration. With moderation, anything is possible. To really cut yourself off of everything is, you know, it's like we've got to avoid. And if we can find you know little ways where we can tweak and enjoy, that's great. But when your body just says no, it means no.

Fiona Kane: 50:19

So listen to your body, listen to what you've made it impossible for me not to Like. I mean honestly I, looking back, like if you had told me all those things, I wouldn't have cared. I was 23 when I would not have listened and so I wouldn't have stopped. I wouldn't have stopped. At what? That point I wouldn't have stopped. I don't know what point I would have had to get to before I would have stopped. So I'm actually really grateful that my body absolutely stopped me. I feel like to me in my mind, it's like if my guardian angel come along, slap me up, slap me upside the head. Stop it, Fiona. Stop it. You're needed for other things. Killing yourself with alcohol isn't going to be helpful. So I just decided to like.

Fiona Kane: 51:05

I've done a lot with my health over the years and maybe I could tolerate alcohol now. Maybe I couldn't, but I just personally decided that I'm just not going to go there. I wasn't managing it in a healthy way, and so I'm not obviously not against people drinking alcohol, and some people can and do drink alcohol in insensible ways, and that's fine. I just wasn't doing that and I'm not quite sure what would happen if I started drinking again, and so I just don't even see the point. Besides, it's so expensive to drink alcohol.

Margaret Muscat: 51:35

It is. I've always thought about people who are very expensive, and it really is. If we looked at it like a luxury, not a necessity, it would be so much better.

Fiona Kane: 51:46

Yes, yeah, exactly, but in our culture in Australia.

Margaret Muscat: 51:50

It's just, you know, it's a go-to.

Fiona Kane: 51:52

Yes, yeah.

Margaret Muscat: 51:53

We don't actually realise what a huge problem it is in our community and in society. It's the untalked about almost drug that's ruining lives and families.

Fiona Kane: 52:09

It is the acceptable drug too, because I know that someone I don't know if it's a comedian or who it was I heard this the other day. I can't attribute it because I can't remember who said it, but they said that you know and this is true that when you say that you don't drink alcohol, people actually respond. And it's a really weird thing. Actually, what happens to me all the time is I don't go around and go, oh, don't drink, don't drink. But if people are offering me alcoholic drinks, usually I just start the conversation. I just say I don't drink alcohol. Because if I don't say that, they say oh, because I say, do you want some wine? And I say oh, no, oh, we've got beer, oh, we've got this. So it's easier for me just to say no, I don't drink alcohol.

Fiona Kane: 52:45

The first thing I say but what's not? There's two, two kind of responses to say. One is that the people think that there's something weird, like wrong with you. So they actually think it's like what's wrong with you. So it's actually seen as like this weird, bad, wrong thing. But the other thing is but the other thing that happens I see a lot is people's first responses well, I don't drink much Like they somehow like talk about their own drinking. Yeah, and I wasn't talking about their drinking, I was just saying I don't drink. And but there's, I don't drink seems to mean to other people, like to me, it just means I don't drink, right, that's what I don't, that's all it means. Right. It means full stop. I don't drink full stop. But to some people, many people I've found, it means I don't drink and I'm judging you for drinking, and I think that you do, and so people's their response to me saying I don't drink is well, I don't drink much. Or I just saw a special cake. I was like why?

Fiona Kane: 53:42

do you ask? It's really funny. So you can sort of say the people who might be feeling a bit uncomfortable about their choices and my choice makes them feel uncomfortable. It's like I'm not saying that to make you feel uncomfortable, it's just about.

Fiona Kane: 53:54

I don't drink. That's so interesting. Yeah, it's weird that we actually make it weird and strange to make the choice not to yeah. For what reasons? So it is a real cultural thing in Australia that alcohol is sort of part of everything and for me it's tea. So I'm the person at the bar, my friends are having shots and I'm saying can I get a pot of tea, please? English breakfast, if you please. Better if it's not in a paper cup, because that's not very civilized. I really would like some China. So I'm that person, yeah.

Margaret Muscat: 54:31

The things we do to. You know, to try, and you know you just try and normalize our choices. And if we just, you know, let go of you don't need to be, do or have a certain thing in your life to feel complete. And you know, let's normalize just being who we are.

Fiona Kane: 54:54

Yeah, yeah, exactly, and you know the big. I suppose look something this up would be. Do you first of all, is it an issue? Just because you eat chocolate or drink alcohol, it doesn't mean it's an issue. But how much are you having? Yeah, and instead of thinking about it, or if you're worried about it, or if you're feeling a bit paranoid about it or whatever defensive about it, or maybe it is an issue.

Fiona Kane: 55:14

But the question is, is it an issue? So that's the first thing Is it affecting your life? Is it affecting your health? Is it affecting your relationships? And so, if it is an issue, then seek help, go and find some people who can support you, because it doesn't mean you're defective. It just means that you've got a challenge and life is very challenging. We have lots of challenges, that's okay. So it's just go and get the help that you need and go and get some support around it. But I, just as we kind of wind up here, I'd just like to make sure that a couple of things that I know that you've got a book, so I'd like you to tell me about your book and tell people where they can get in contact with you maybe your website or something like that.

Margaret Muscat: 55:54

Okay, so this is the book. It's called Making a Difference and that was launched in August last year and my chapter. There's 14 authors worldwide and my chapter is called how to Create Freedom from Mental Chaos to Mental Clarity and Inner Peace, and so it talks a bit about my personal experience and how I journeyed through anxiety, depression and trauma and what led me to become a hypnotherapist. And there's a lot of good little tools in there about how to have good mental health and get that inner clarity and mental peace within. So that's available on Amazon. It's also available on my website at hilltophypnotherapycomau, and what's the book called again?

Margaret Muscat: 56:50

The book is called Making a Difference Making a. Difference by Hille House Publishing.

Fiona Kane: 56:56

Okay, and it's hilltophypnotherapy dot com dot au, and I'll pop those links in the show notes as well. So if you've missed that, it'll be in the show notes. So, look, I'd really like to thank you, Margaret. That was a really interesting conversation.

Margaret Muscat: 57:13

Now. Thank you so much for inviting me and it's just. It's been a pleasure to learn from your experience and your profession how you know the what we eat and how we eat affects us completely internally and to work with you, work with you understanding the mental aspect of that, combining the two together where just got that whole holistic approach to getting people happier, healthier and feeling better about themselves moving forward. So thank you so much. I've really enjoyed this time with you.

Fiona Kane: 57:55

It's been great having you on and look, I always say that your diet is not just what you eat, it's what you say to yourself, it's what it's whether or not you move your body, it's what you watch on television, it's what you listen to, it's you know it's. Your diet is so many things. It's not just one thing. It's who you spend your time with so well, it's everything you can assume. So, whether that be spiritually, visually, something you're listening to, whatever, but your diet is all of those things, and so I think that when you understand that, you understand that we need to treat things from looking all of those things. But thanks a lot, Margaret.

Margaret Muscat: 58:33

Thank you, Thanks Fiona.

Fiona Kane: 58:35

And thank you everybody for listening or watching today on Rumble and YouTube. Now please like, subscribe, share with your friends and if you're on Rumble on YouTube, you can also leave a comment. I'd love to hear your feedback and, and yeah, just please support the podcast so more people get to hear about this podcast, and I will see you all again next week. Thank you, bye. Thank you bye.