The Wellness Connection with Fiona Kane

Episode 83 Healing and Transformation: Sam's Mental Health Journey

• Fiona Kane • Season 1 • Episode 83

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Join us for a heartfelt conversation with Sam Ebblewhite, a somatic sexologist and intuitive healer, who shares her transformative mental health journey. This story begins with growing up in a family grappling with alcohol-related dysfunction as the eldest child. We discuss how Sam sought help through counselling and over time explored various traditional and alternative therapies. Her late diagnosis of ADHD acts as a turning point, offering clarity and a new perspective on understanding herself and managing her mental well-being.

Our discussion doesn't shy away from the tough topics, addressing the impacts of childhood trauma and the responsibility we carry in our healing journeys. We share insights into the value of rewriting inherited narratives and beliefs to foster personal growth. Healing, as we discuss, is akin to updating an outdated software, where challenging the critical inner voice is a necessary step toward integration and self-compassion.

The episode wraps up with a focus on creating a personalised mental health toolkit, tailored to your individual needs. We discuss essential components that contribute to holistic mental health management. Tune in for a blend of practical insights and heartfelt stories to inspire and empower your mental health journey.

Sam's contact details:

Email :sam@samebblewhite.com.au
Mobile: 0419 776 186
Website: https://www.samebblewhite.com.au/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/samebblewhitess

Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/samebblewhitess/



Learn more about booking a nutrition consultation with Fiona: https://informedhealth.com.au/

Learn more about Fiona's speaking and media services: https://fionakane.com.au/

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Credit for the music used in this podcast:

The Beat of Nature

Music by Olexy from Pixabay



Fiona Kane:

Hello and welcome to the Wellness Connection podcast with Fiona Kain. I'm your host, Fiona Cain. Today is another day where I have a guest, so I'd like to introduce my guest. Hello to Sam Ebelwhite.

Sam Ebblewhite:

Hi everyone. Thanks Fiona for having me on.

Fiona Kane:

You're welcome. For those who don't know you, tell us a little bit about who you are.

Sam Ebblewhite:

Yeah, so my work at the moment is I'm a somatic sexologist and an intuitive healer, but I'm also a mum of three, ex-wife of a partner. I do a bit of escort work, so I wear lots of different hats.

Fiona Kane:

And today I always forget to kind of say what my topic is at the beginning, but that's all right. It all comes out in the wash in the end. Essentially, today it is actually Mental Health Month, so it's probably a convenient time and I know you've got a bit of a story to tell in regards to your mental health and in regards to some of the strategies that you have used to overcome or at least manage some of your issues. So essentially, we're going to be talking a little bit about that.

Sam Ebblewhite:

So if you would maybe just like to start with just telling us a little bit more about that background and about the challenges that you've had, yeah, it's been actually a really interesting journey and something I've lived with definitely all of my adult life and probably a portion of my teenage life, I suppose, undiagnosed. I grew up in a family where I would consider it a loving family, but there was dysfunction, particularly around alcohol, with both of my parents. So I developed coping strategies, particularly as a teenager. Being the eldest child of two, I was the peacemaker and tried to be very compliant, and I was quite unhappy as a teenager but didn't tell anybody and didn't show it to the world and kept it all to myself and I used to use things like drawing and journaling as a way of processing it.

Sam Ebblewhite:

And then in my early teens, when I had to kind of juggle different things in life and I deferred from uni and I had all sorts of things going on and that was the first time I was diagnosed with depression I would have been about 18. Okay, so I um, at that point in time, um, I received counseling and found that incredibly useful. I remember thinking it didn't take away my problems, but it was almost like my brain had been like this jigsaw puzzle and it just helped put the pieces together and I was able to manage it yes.

Sam Ebblewhite:

And so I kind of went through that process, managing my mental health using those tools, exploring different strategies in my early adulthood. And then my first marriage dissolved when I was pregnant with my second child and it was a really, really horrible year. We had lots of things to deal with and that was the first time I was medicated for my depression. So again, I'd sought help through counselling and talk therapy and then also balanced that out with medication at the time and I'd started to explore different avenues of personal development. So, you know, starting to work out who I wanted to be and peel back some of you know the baggage I was carrying from my childhood and my limiting self-beliefs and sort of juggling that process and raising children and you know, know all the things that go with it. And then I married again and, you know, kind of went through that process and that didn't really work out either. So I had my third child, again still on and off medication, still using talk therapy, but it was after that point I had also started to explore alternative therapies.

Sam Ebblewhite:

So, um, I'd worked at a chiropractor for a long time and so discovered NET and kinesiology and found that really amazing, um, because I got to the point where I got tired of talking about why I had the challenges and why I had the limiting self-beliefs. And you know, I was working on myself and doing lots of personal development and I kept on sabotaging myself. You know, I knew what I wanted and I couldn't understand why I, you know, kept on stopping myself. And that was when I started to understand that we carry emotions in our body. And so, through kinesiology and then energetic work, I started to clear out layers of that trauma and hurt and emotion and for me at that point in time that was really, really beneficial.

Sam Ebblewhite:

And so it's just been a process of peeling back layers and growing and developing and learning you know who I want to be and taking on life's challenges. And then my youngest son he's diagnosed ADHD and also on the autism spectrum, and when I got his ADHD diagnosis, his paediatrician said to me I think maybe you should look into women with ADHD. And he sort of said you know from things that you've told me and from your family history. And so I went through that process and realised that I had undiagnosed ADHD for most of my life. Yes, and that was very, very freeing for me because I remember getting off the call with him and getting onto Google and looking it up and realising all of these things that I'd punished myself for so many years that there actually was a reason that I struggled to do those things.

Fiona Kane:

Yeah, and I struggled. It's a different way of thinking. A hundred percent yeah.

Sam Ebblewhite:

Yeah, and I've since found a lot of women with ADHD. Often I don't believe I was misdiagnosed with depression, but I think that was a symptom of my coping mechanisms. And so I do take Ritalin now as opposed to antidepressants, and for me that was life-changing. But I think it's only a piece of the puzzle. So for me I approach my mental health as a holistic thing, looking at lots of different areas.

Fiona Kane:

And that's really important because, first of all, I just would like to acknowledge you for getting help in the first place and going for the first time time going to that counsellor, because some people don't get help for a really really long time, if at all. So, recognising it I think you said it was around 18, that you did need that help and actually getting help is really important. And you know, the other thing too is that, as is unfolding in this discussion, there's not always one answer or one answer.

Sam Ebblewhite:

I actually I don't ever believe there is, and I don't ever believe it's one thing that takes you down a mental health journey. I actually think it's usually a culmination of lots of things, and I think the best way to manage your mental health is with a combination of things. Um, I wish that we had magic wands and we could wave them and make everything better, but I don't think that's reality well, we're human beings and that we're complicated and even just in, you were saying that you've been diagnosed with ADHD, right?

Fiona Kane:

so your, your, the way your brain works is different to the way somebody else's does, right? So even just with those sorts of things, and also then when we look at our background, we all have whatever childhood we have good, bad and ugly and a lot of people have different challenges in their childhood. But even if you have the same childhood as someone else, the way that they process it and the way that you do might be quite different. So there's so many factors, so it's just not as simple as. Oh, I had counseling once, and that's the thing.

Fiona Kane:

One thing I do find frustrating sometimes when I'm talking to people is they kind of did something once and it didn't work or it didn't keep working, and then they sort of give up, and I think it's just important to understand it's. First of all, our mental health is something that we manage our whole lives, the same as our physical health, right? So we manage our physical and mental health our whole life, and so it's not a job that you just do and that you just have done, like you don't go for a walk once and say I've done my exercise for my life. So this is the same thing, where it's something that you manage and it's something that you manage over a lifetime, and we have to adjust what we do and what works and how we do it and what we need, and all those things over a lifetime, depending on what's happening.

Fiona Kane:

But, it's not sort of like a one and done thing, it's just an exploration and a continued understanding that we just need to keep managing it the same as we do our physical health.

Sam Ebblewhite:

And I think it's a process for lots of different reasons.

Sam Ebblewhite:

So you know, your challenges change throughout your life.

Sam Ebblewhite:

The demand on you changes, how you manage something and what works for you at any particular time that changes, and so even if you've tried something once and you didn't like it, you know maybe a different practitioner would give you a different result, maybe a different life stage would give you a different result. I lost mum 14 years ago to cancer, but I remember when I first started getting some help and talking to her about it and she was not a person that ever sought help and I remember her saying to me she'd gone to counselling once and all she did was cry. Now I know that's part of the process and sometimes we have to. That's how that emotion comes out before we get to the place that we can actually start to be able to heal and move forward, almost like a grieving process. You kind of I like to think of it sometimes if you've got like a jar that's bottled up with all this stuff that you've shoved down, sometimes you've got to let all of that out before you can then take the next step.

Fiona Kane:

Yes, the crying doesn't last forever.

Sam Ebblewhite:

Yeah, mum was just, I think, so terrified that, you know, she would fall apart and not be able to come back together, and so, you know, we'd had a tumultuous relationship. But I'm very grateful that, because of the work I'd done, you know, I was able to be there with her at the end, and it wasn't about making amends because she was sick. We could actually just enjoy each other and have a relationship, and I credit that for, you know, the work that I did and and getting my tools sorted to kind of manage my own stuff, um, because that's that's the reality. You know, we actually have no control over anyone other than ourselves, and with our mental health it's the same thing, um, and sometimes it's harder than others, but unfortunately it's up to us to process that it is.

Fiona Kane:

It is, and, just on a side note, I don't know if my microphone's picking it up, but we've got a lot of thunder here in the background, so if there are strange noises coming through on this recording, we're both in different places in Sydney, but we're both in the middle of a storm right now. So, just if you hear weird sounds in the background, that's why. But you are exactly right, though, with what you're saying. It's our responsibility, and I think that that's the challenge is because we can, if we want, to say I'm a child of parents who are alcoholic or whatever.

Fiona Kane:

The thing is that our parents did or didn't do, and it's true and it's valid, and we have a reason to feel bad about that. The thing is, though, that what sometimes we do is we carry it for our whole life as the excuse that we never need to do anything and we never need to do any work ourselves and it's not my fault and we sort of go through life and kind of just, you know, destroy other people's lives along the way through, but don't take responsibility yeah I think, to know that you can take responsibility and it doesn't mean it's easy and I'm not kind of I'm not putting down anyone who's going through that or feeling that way.

Fiona Kane:

It's very natural to feel that way. It's just not very empowering long term. So in the long term, we are able to get the help and find the strategies that will help us sort of turn that around and then, like you said, you are in control of you and what you do and your way of responding things and learning how to do that, rather than just spending a whole life in their could have, should have, would have, but it's their fault sort of place which is sometimes is like, absolutely valid, like there's no question Correct, but no matter how valid it is, is it helpful? That's right.

Fiona Kane:

And is it not necessarily helpful? You know, and the other thing too is I know that I lost my mom three years ago and I know that she had some issues with some mental health challenges as well and it is tricky and I didn't have the extra layer that you had with the alcoholism there as well. But when you are a child of a parent who is having those kinds of struggles, it's really confusing and really complicated, and children generally take on things and feel like they're to blame for stuff. And if you're the eldest, you often feel like you're responsible for protecting and looking after the younger children as well, but then also that we need to protect our parents.

Fiona Kane:

You know, so we're the protector for everybody else, but not for us. And it's complicated. When you're in a relationship with people who are struggling with their mental health or substance abuse issues or those sorts of things, it can often be quite, quite besides, it can be physically dangerous, of course as well, but it can be quite emotionally dangerous too. And so we learn to kind of protect ourselves and not kind of put yourself out there because you just never know what, what you're walking into, kind of thing. I think that all of those years of living in that sort of fight or flight that we're in when we're in homes like that is exactly why this is something that sort of kind of it's a lifetime to sort of unravel bits and pieces and why different parts of the puzzle work. Which is why I said with the kinesiology I think it's the kinesiology you said that was helpful for you- yeah, yeah, and look, I did various types of energetic healing.

Sam Ebblewhite:

but it's funny because what happens is you develop these survival mechanisms, which is what keeps you safe in these homes and growing up, and all of us have, because, you know, our key human, one of our key human attributes, is survival. So, generally, the body and the mind do whatever they can to survive. So, um, what happens then is we get out of that environment and we grow and we change. And what was tools that kept us safe then become tools that hold us back or cause us dysfunction in our life? Um, and so I think, um, I have a huge amount of gratitude that I was always willing to explore and learn about myself and face my demons, because it's not fun and it's not easy and for a lot of people it's scary and I think, own my part or my choices in a situation. So, you know, we were all victims of something.

Sam Ebblewhite:

But when we stay in that space, we actually lose accountability, and when we don't have any accountability for our choices and our actions, we have no platform to change and grow. So, when we are willing to explore a dynamic and look at the different parts of it and, you know, maybe look at your parents with compassion if they were doing the best they could do. Or, you know, maybe like there's situations where people go through horrific things and there's not a place for compassion, and so then you know, maybe gratitude is not even the right word, but being able to get out of that dynamic and then rebuild their life, you know they can use that as a platform of what they don't want to bring into their life. And you know we have these different, you know tools that we can go and ways we can look at it. And when you take accountability for your situation, it actually gives you the power you mentioned empowered before, but it gives you the power to change and do something different to what you've been living with or doing.

Fiona Kane:

and if you don't have, if you don't take that power, then then life will always be um out of your control yeah, yeah, and I think what you said there just it's really, really important and I'm going to emphasize it that that we have those patterns of behavior that we have for survival and they absolutely we have them for a very good reason, because we do survive because of them.

Fiona Kane:

But then if we take them into our, the rest of our life, they can and do interfere with our well, success, well-being, happiness, relationships, everything.

Fiona Kane:

And if you understand that we all kind of have a version of that uh, some more extreme than others, depending on what we had to survive, that one of life's challenges is just to understand that we have that, to identify and to figure out kind of how to unpack that and put it back together in a way that works, a way that works for you.

Fiona Kane:

And then you know what you said as well in regards to the you know, then it's kind of taking responsibility and also just to be able to fix a situation. We need to just be able to acknowledge what it is. And, yes, you just do need to be able to look at your parents and see exactly what they are good, bad and ugly and in most cases, you probably will be able to find some compassion for them and some humanity with them, and in some cases maybe not. Some compassion for them and some humanity with them, and in some cases maybe not. And um, and I think that the the work is then in sort of just learning that, regardless that whatever they did, none of it was your fault, yeah, and it wasn't actually about you, even if it feels like it was about you.

Fiona Kane:

It was about them playing out. They're playing out, you know, they've probably what we just talked about, that cycle we just talked about. They have had some, some sort of trauma or some sort of thing happened to them and they've, they've chosen or they've fallen into whatever survival mode that they use and they're acting that out and and that is harming you. But I don't necessarily think in in most cases it's not an intentional thought out process. It's just people who didn't sort out their stuff now are harming the next generation and so just understanding that, yeah, sometimes you just need to look at it. What was the situation, what was going on, what was going on for them? And then what do I need to do with this information? And sometimes you can heal a relationship or you can move on with one. Sometimes you can't and it's appropriate not to have that relationship. It just all depends on the situation the main thing is healing you, isn't it?

Sam Ebblewhite:

a hundred percent, because you know there's that saying hurt people hurt people. But if you don't take care of your own stuff, it just spills out into every area of your life, even when you think it doesn't um no, it's, and it's a process, so it comes out in layers, Like you said.

Sam Ebblewhite:

You know you don't do something once and it's fixed and that can be phenomenally frustrating. But what I sort of have done in my own journey and then I like to do with other people is, you know, you think about your stories. So we are where we are now and that's kind of our, sometimes our starting point or our. You know our story and we have like a baggage with us with all the stuff that we've picked up along the way. Some of it we want to keep and some of it we don't. And then we get to think about where we want to be and we get to rewrite any stories that we don't like. But you have to actually be able to observe. You have to actually be able to observe, you have to know what baggage you're carrying and you have to know what stories that you've got in your system that you're carrying and belief systems from your family and your friends and relationships and everything that you've been exposed to throughout your life, because that makes up who you are and where you are.

Fiona Kane:

Yeah, yeah, I often tell my clients that stories are a bit like software that's been installed by maybe your parents or your society or whoever yourself, but essentially it's it's kind of a software and you can replace the software. But we don't realize that we, I don't, that I don't know at what point it happens or if it happens for everyone, that you realize that you don't actually have to listen to the voice in your head or that the voice in your head isn't necessarily accurate or true or sensible, and it's just understanding that that voice is part of. Yeah, it's basically kind of a software that was uploaded onto you and you can choose to update the software or change the software.

Sam Ebblewhite:

I'm not convinced the voice goes away.

Sam Ebblewhite:

Um, so I have a few of those voices.

Sam Ebblewhite:

Um, I do think the voice gets softer and I do think for me, like I talk because I body image is a big thing, that, um, I've battled and I work with people around and, um, so you know I talk about what do you see when you look in the mirror?

Sam Ebblewhite:

Because often you know we can present to the world and it's those quiet times when we're by ourselves that those demons come out. But you know, I think I like to think about this voice on one shoulder that tells me all the things that you know is that that shit basically. But then you, you build evidence to, to fight that voice and you, you know, you heal the parts of you that bring up the components of that voice and so that voice gets softer and even when you hear it, you have more evidence to be able to challenge that and move forward. Yeah, and I think with mental health, that's a big one, because we often are battling those voices in our head. You know, sometimes legitimate voices when we've got, you know, schizophrenia or things like that, but other times it's just that self-talk and that loathing and all of the crap that we carry from battling mental health.

Fiona Kane:

Yeah, yeah, and talking about that again, not talking about the schizophrenic type voice, but talking about the average everyday person and the voices that we have in our head. Yeah, you're right, you don't just stop it. And I think that I think that battling it is um, there's a losing battle there. I think it's more about what you were talking about. It's kind of that integration thing. It's actually just learning to first of all, you don't have to believe it, you can challenge it, you can use evidence to challenge it. So well, you said that I can't do it, but I just did that kind of thing, uh and um, and over time, when you learn that you can challenge it and when you learn you don't just have to accept what it says instead of integrate it as part.

Fiona Kane:

And also that voice, I don't know sometimes that voice is that part of us, is that protective part of us. So we were talking before about how we have this protective mechanism to save and look after ourselves. Well, that voice is often a strong part of that. So the voice actually is what's their most. The voice is most fearful of change, because all change is bad, because we don't know what's going to happen. We just don't want anything to change, you know.

Fiona Kane:

So, yeah, so when you understand that the voice often not always, but the voice often is part of that protective mechanism, then you can learn to work with it more and talk to it more and not sort of have to be in battle with it or try and get rid of it, but sort of to bring it along for the ride and explain to it that actually, you know, you were really helpful when you know, 20 years ago, when I was going through this, but now this is my situation, so the best support you can do for me now is this instead. So it's kind of, you know, it's not battling, it's more learning to wrangle with the different voices and the different parts of us and kind of bring all that together as opposed to, yeah, just fighting, fighting with yourself, basically.

Sam Ebblewhite:

And sometimes it's it's information. So you know if you can observe the times where that voice is louder, you know it might be when you're trying to do something new, so then it's like, okay, I'm trying to do something different, so my security system's in overwhelm. You know if it's times where you know if you're thinking about a body image component, you know you get out of the shower and you see yourself naked. You know is get out of the shower and you see yourself naked. You know, is there another bit that I need to heal? Do I need a bit more professional help to work on this area that I can't seem to get past? You know these things can highlight areas that we actually need to heal, we need to work on. You know it can be really useful information.

Fiona Kane:

Yeah, yeah, you're right. Data, it's all data.

Sam Ebblewhite:

Yeah.

Fiona Kane:

Yeah, so you've talked a little bit about some of the things that you have done over time to support your mental health. So you did talk about sort of doing some talk therapy and some kinesiology, and is there anything else that you would like to talk about in regards to the things, the strategies that you have used that have really helped you?

Sam Ebblewhite:

Yeah, look, one of the things I've kind of I don't know developed over years of working on my mental health I call my mental health toolkit but it can also be like a self-care toolkit as well and I've realized that there's areas of my life which, when I manage well, my mental health is better, and they're often things that slip when I'm struggling. So it kind of it's been a really useful system for me and I I work with people now developing the same because I believe in it so much. So for me, the components I look at there's about five. So I look at nutrition am I eating well? Because when I eat well, generally, I feel better about myself. I'm feeding my body the food that serves me.

Sam Ebblewhite:

Um, I'm gluten and dairy intolerant, so when I'm not eating foods that don't agree with me, I feel better. On the flip side, when my mental health is not great, I tend to be comfort eating. I tend to be looking for things to put butter on, you know. So it can be a tool to help me, but it can also be a tool to identify when things are slipping or when I go oh, actually something's not quite right here. The second thing for me is movement or exercise. So I find going to the gym works really well for me, particularly in the morning. I start my day well. It's not for everyone, so part of you, you know what I encourage people to do is find what their toolkit would be, but for me, um, getting up and going to the gym in the morning makes a big difference. It gets my ass out of bed and gets me moving.

Fiona Kane:

Um, movement is really important and people can do it in different ways that might work for them whether they're dancing around at home to their favorite music, or whether they're going for a walk or whatever it is, but movement is the important part how and when they do it or where 100, 100 and again, you know, if I find I haven't exercised for a couple of weeks, what's going on?

Sam Ebblewhite:

why do I not want to do that? So, and then the third one for me is medication and supplementation. So if I'm on meds, am I taking my meds? Um, I used to go through stages when I was on antidepressants where sometimes I just forget to take my meds and I'd get to day two and I'd be okay day three, the wheels would fall off the car. So you know, am I, am I doing that? Do I need any kind of extra supplementation if I need support with my nutrition? That's kind of the third one that I look at.

Sam Ebblewhite:

The fourth one I look at is what am I feeding my head? You know, what am I putting in? Am I, you know, positive music, positive movies, or am I, you know, doom, scrolling on something that doesn't serve me? Am I around negative people? Am I around people that lift me up, or am I around people that live a life that I don't want? That's the kind of mental component. Um, and then for me, now I have a spirituality aspect to that. So I work with oracle cards and I I work with my guides and my spirituality. So that forms part of that headspace too. Am I doing those things, you know? That's that serve me, um? And if I'm not, what's going on?

Sam Ebblewhite:

And then the fifth one for me is around accountability. So, you know, am I reaching out for help if I've got those other four things in place and I'm not good? Do I need professional help? Do I need to go back to, you know, a talk therapist? Do I need to do an energetic balance? Do I need, do I need, extra help if those things are, are not working?

Sam Ebblewhite:

So, for me, what I've found is it's such a really powerful toolkit for me to both manage my mental health, but it's also a really cool warning system. So when those things start to slip like little things you know, like, am I not wanting to shower every day? Am I not? So if I wear makeup, am I not wanting to take my makeup off? I've learned for me these are early warning signs that my mental something's not right. Yes, and then, then I've got these tools that I can go. Okay, things are a bit wobbly, I'm not not feeling great. Am I doing my tools? Am I eating well? Am I moving? Can these things bring me back out of that hole or do I need extra help? So for me this kind of toolkit concept has been life-changing and has been how I sort of manage my mental health and have done for quite a few years.

Fiona Kane:

Yeah, and that's really important what you said about do you know what the warning signs are? And I think it's really important that people within themselves again, that's information, that's data start to learn what it might look like for you.

Sam Ebblewhite:

Yeah, you know. So it looks like everyone's will be different, but there will be draw, whatever it is.

Fiona Kane:

But what you do. That you've noticed.

Sam Ebblewhite:

Like you said, you're not taking a makeup off, whatever it is. Yeah, little things. You know. For me, self-care, you know when I'm not wanting to do those self-care activities. But there's times, like you know, life is crazy. I juggle lots of different plates I think lots of people do and and there's days where you know you just you just fall in the hole.

Sam Ebblewhite:

Um, and I've found I'm really grateful, um, I can actually get myself out of the hole really quickly now, um, probably because I can draw on that toolkit I've got, I know things that help me. Um, and I, um I've been. I think luck plays a part, but I think, um I don't know whether courage is the right word I've been fortunate that I've always been willing to get help when I've needed it and I've been lucky that the times that I've sought help touch wood. You know I found people that supported me well, so I encourage people. You know, if you reach out to a counsellor and a psychologist and that person doesn't fit with you, find someone else, you know, or try a different mode of therapy, because it's not always a fit the first time. Same with medication. You know, I was very lucky that when I've gone on medications I adjusted to the medication really well and I didn't have problems.

Fiona Kane:

But you know, the same with nutrition could be the same with exercise, the same with all of these things. The first thing we try doesn't work for us. So we just need to find the thing that does work. And in regards to the toolkit you've been talking about, I just want to clarify too, because I know that sometimes when people hear things they kind of get oh that doesn't work for me.

Fiona Kane:

Your toolkit is your toolkit right, so for some people that might be about prayer and going to church. For some people that might be about prayer and going to church. For some people that might be going to their craft group and connecting with their friends. There's different things we have in our toolkit. They don't have to look the same.

Fiona Kane:

So, what has worked for Sam is brilliant and it's working for her, and yours might not look the same.

Fiona Kane:

The main thing is that we have a toolkit, we create a toolkit and the things that nourish us, the things that support us, the things that we know work really well for our mental health, and everyone's toolkit can look different, but it's just you have one and you learn the warning signs that Sam has discussed, that she sort of knows what the signs are. The other thing, too, that would be useful and I think you might have said this, I'll just clarify with you but if you know what your warning signs are, but also, if you're lucky enough, if you have someone who's close to you who might recognize them as well, or who you might be able to tell, someone who you sort of have a certain amount of accountability with, who will kind of recognize when sometimes it's the people around us who look at you and kind of go, wow, you're looking after yourself, you know. So it's probably useful. Do you find it useful to have someone in your life that can help in that way, or is it?

Sam Ebblewhite:

more of a I do. For me, part of my dynamic and part of just the way my life has been is I've been quite self-sufficient and self-reliant, and so, um, I haven't always had those people in my life to call me out on those things, um, but I do think, you know, having your support network as part of your toolkit is really, really important, and so, for me, one of my things, um, which I suppose is kind of the same thing, you know, when the kids were little, if I found myself yelling at the kids more, that was one of my warning signs, you know. So, maybe, if you know your partner's brave enough to speak up, you know, or you've got a good enough relationship that that you can call those, or maybe a parent or a sibling. I do think that's really powerful because sometimes they can see things before you can.

Sam Ebblewhite:

I'm going to call a little bit on something with regard to the toolkit, because I encourage people. It's got to be them, it's got to be what works for them, but I do think nutrition and movement are crucial if we're going to talk about wellness and, yes, and managing mental health as a holistic thing, I think um some form of mindset, whether that be prayer, whether that be um, because we're very conscious about often what we we put into our body physically but what we put into our body mentally, particularly when we managing mental health, is a huge component. And then developing a support network, whether that be professional support, whether that be your personal support network or a combination of all of the above. I think if you have whatever works with you, but take into account that, look at at least those four areas and have some kind of system to take care of that in your toolkit. I think is really important.

Fiona Kane:

Yeah, well, when we look at what we need for just human function and human survival, we need connections. So we do need to have someone or a place. People, someone it has to be people, but it could be friends or it could be partner or whoever it is, or professional, but we certainly do need people that we have a connection with and people that we talk to.

Sam Ebblewhite:

Especially because when one of you know I think for a lot of people, withdrawal and isolation when mental health is not good is one of the know, I don't. I think for a lot of people, um, withdraw on isolation when mental health is not good is is one of the the big things that happen. So, yeah, you find yourself not wanting to see your friends and not wanting to leave your house and, yes, you know, like red flag, red flag, red flag, yeah yeah, red flag for you and it could also be actually and I'll go back to those other things, but it'll also.

Fiona Kane:

Also. I'll give you an example. I uh but I had I've talked about this on the podcast before I had a couple of strokes when I was in my 20s and a few years ago I was in a situation where I my tongue started to go numb all of the time and so it sort of felt a lot like I was having another stroke. And then I kind of realized it still went on for on and off for months. So obviously I wasn't having another stroke at the time and I did. I mean, obviously I talked to my doctor, I did those, those sorts of things, but it was still quite. It made me feel quite anxious, you know, because you start having it's frightening if you've been through your strokes yeah.

Fiona Kane:

So what I did is I actually at the time I was working in a clinic and I had some staff in that clinic and I talked to them and I also talked to my husband and I told them what the signs of stroke were and I said, if you see this, this, this and this, please ring the ambulance.

Fiona Kane:

It means I'm having a stroke, right? And so I put it onto them to watch the symptoms for me and then I just put it away, sort of thing. But what I'm trying to say is that what you could do, potentially, or a useful thing, could be to whether it be to you don't have to give people the full detail of your situation, but just you can say to people hey, look, sometimes you know, if I'm not feeling so great, I tend to withdraw a bit If you've noticed I've disappeared, can you please just follow me up? You know. So there might be a colleague or a friend or someone or a family member who you can say hey, if you notice I'm starting to disappear, can you please follow it up, Because that might mean that I'm having a rough time and sometimes I have trouble. So that's another way of maybe kind of asking having a rough time and sometimes I have trouble.

Sam Ebblewhite:

So that's another way of maybe kind of asking, and I think that's so powerful, and I'm going to call out, for a lot of people listening that will probably be terrifying, because some of us carry the belief system that we're actually not worthy of help, and that's one of our stories, but part of rewriting those stories sometimes is we have to be vulnerable to see that these people genuinely want to support us and help us, and it's not until you kind of put it out there.

Sam Ebblewhite:

One of the things a big lesson I've learnt over the last couple of years, though, is who you ask is really important.

Sam Ebblewhite:

So when you are I don't like to use the words right and wrong, but I'm going to use it just for this example because it's easier so, when you ask the right people, what you find is they support you and they help take you to where you're headed, and this is the story that you're rewriting, or the support that you want, and and they'll be able to hold space for you.

Sam Ebblewhite:

When you ask the wrong people, they tend to keep you in that space of that that story that you want, and they'll be able to hold space for you. When you ask the wrong people, they tend to keep you in that space of that story that you're carrying, that you maybe want to change or you know they can't help you and they don't support you and they feed into that side. So I've learned it's very, very you know observing people and you know, not hating on them for where they're at, but just going okay, this person probably doesn't have the capacity to support me in what I'm asking, so I'm not going to ask that person, but this other person does, so they're going to be the better person to have in my support team.

Fiona Kane:

And maybe it's a physical or emotional capacity that they don't have, or maybe they're just the wrong person. I think Brene Brown refers to people those sorts of people as candleblower outers. We don't share our fears and our dreams and things with candle blower outers, because they just blow the candle out.

Fiona Kane:

No, you can't do that, it's recognizing the people in your life who are the ones who are going to support you and want the best for you. And also, too, like when I said before talking to a colleague or whatever. I'm not saying that you have to go up to your colleague and say I have major mental health issues and blah, blah, blah. It's just like, hey look, sometimes I get a bit down and if I do I can withdraw, and that's not good for me.

Fiona Kane:

If you notice I do that, can you just check in on me? It's just simple as that. And it doesn't have to be. You don't have to give them your whole history of your mental health. It's simply just saying it's no different to me, I see, because, like me saying, look for these signs of stroke, right? So for me, for me, it's just like a same same thing. It's just like, okay, I know that I have this issue, I know I have this physical issue, or I know that I just have this issue where I where I withdraw a bit when I'm a bit down, and can I just ask you to do this thing? So to me it's, we can make it simple like that.

Fiona Kane:

It doesn't have to be super complicated and just choose someone that you feel safe to ask that on.

Sam Ebblewhite:

I think we're in a time where there's much more information and education around mental health and obviously there's exceptions to the rule. But mental health and um. Obviously there's exceptions to the rule, but generally, you know it's more accepted um for what it is and you know, even most workplaces now actually have mental health first aiders and there's support networks in place, um, so you can actually reach out to that person in confidence if your workplace has one of those. But like you said, fiona, you know even things like going. Look, you know, sometimes I get a bit lost and if I don't respond to your messages, two messages in a row, can you give me a buzz just to check in that? I'm okay, little things like that where you don't even have to air your dirty laundry.

Fiona Kane:

Yeah, because you might do the same thing if you had some other condition. Like you know, sometimes I faint or I suffer from epilepsy or I suffer from this or whatever you know. So we do it for a lot of physical things. So it's kind of the same thing. It's like, can you just check in on me if, whatever it is, and maybe someone who you know, who will do that with you, or who they text you every Friday night to see how you're going, will do that with you, or who they text you every Friday night to see how you're going, and if they, if I don't respond, can you follow that up? Because you know, whatever it is, that's just it's being able to ask for help. Or if you feel like you can't do any of that, you can still ring Lifeline or one of the many kind of online places if you know, don't feel safe or don't feel like there's anyone you can talk to.

Sam Ebblewhite:

And I think something you mentioned is really powerful. You know, when it's physical illnesses, we wouldn't think twice about these things. And I can remember one of the times I'd had to go back to the doctor to go back on antidepressants and you know, I don't know what I felt, just the concept of having to take medication every day to manage my mental health. And I remember a doctor saying to me you wouldn't question if you had to take blood pressure medication, or you know, and I was like, well, that's really true. Why do we question it when it's, when it's mental health? And and for me you know the times you know it was clearly a chemical imbalance and you know the difference when I went on medication, but sometimes just acknowledging that whilst it's not a physical ailment, it's still, you know it's real and it should be treated with the same respect.

Fiona Kane:

Absolutely, and it's not a failure if you need medication. Now, you know I'm all about natural therapies and natural ways of doing things, and certainly there are. For many people, they can come off or they can avoid medication. For many people they can't, and that's okay too. Essentially, it's what works for you. Yeah, so, and and sometimes certainly I know, in situations where people are in a really um, if you're in a real heightened state of anxiety, that kind of thing, sometimes you need medication before you can get to a place where you can work on the issue.

Fiona Kane:

So, sometimes you need something to take the edge off for you to allow you to do that. So, yeah, so it's really just using the tools that are available and obviously being supervised in it and getting support and doing the work that you need to do. But just use the tools that you need and there's no shame in needing this tool or that tool. It's just whatever's going to ultimately work for you, but also just getting the support you need to work through whatever is going on. Yeah, I completely agree. And going back to, I'm aware that we've gone a little bit. You know we're stretching it with time. Not too bad.

Fiona Kane:

I've done some overly long episodes. I'm trying not to do them too long now, because I sort of get a bit too long sometimes, but I'm just going to go back to something we started covering before, like in regards to going back to the toolbox, the things that we really need. Certainly, we do need good nutrition. We need to move our bodies. Our bodies are not made to not move. We do need to move them. We need good sleep. Sleep, we need connection with other human beings and I think that most people benefit from having some sort of spiritual practice.

Sam Ebblewhite:

Whatever that looks like for you, but something that's sort of bigger than you, something that where you feel you've got that support all that I 100 agree because because there's something very powerful in having something bigger than you to turn to in difficult times, but also, to you know, have gratitude and call on in good times and however that looks for you.

Fiona Kane:

Yeah, yeah. And then there could be supplements or herbs and or medications. And I would just say if you're taking medications and supplements, herbs, whatever, just get advice from someone like me or a natural therapist or someone who knows how to prescribe safely, because sometimes they counteract each other and that's not a good idea. So don't just go to Woolies and do it yourself, not BYO, do it yourself.

Sam Ebblewhite:

And do that as well. If you're on medication and you decide you want to get off your medication, don't just stop taking it. Go to your doctor and most medications need to be weaned off and often, you'll need to sometimes supplement to compensate. So before I had my third child, I weaned off my antidepressants, but then I used high doses of omega-3 as an alternative. So there's ways you can do it, but do it with support and with a practitioner that knows what they're talking about?

Fiona Kane:

Yes, yes, definitely, and what I would also like to do is just point out that you and I are going to book some other episodes to do as well, because there's some other things that I do want to talk about with you. Certainly, sexual health is something that I think would be worth us talking about. Absolutely, that's something you mentioned before. Body image yes, I think that's a really important one, too, so I think I'm going to be booking you in for some future episodes to talk more about those things. Thank you, that's it's been very exciting. Is there anything else you'd like to add in this conversation that you think it's important to mention?

Sam Ebblewhite:

I think you know it's been really clear that this is obviously an area of passion for both of us and I just think talking about and sharing about people's journeys and sharing with vulnerability and openness is powerful so people don't feel like they're alone. So obviously, you know I've had my journey and part of my passion now with my work is to help other people kind of heal and grow and work on things. So you know we're going to share my contact details. My work is to help other people kind of heal and grow and work on things. So you know we're going to share my contact details, but you know people can be free to reach out if they have any questions about things that we've talked about. What's?

Sam Ebblewhite:

the best place to contact you. Probably email is best. So it's sam at sam ebelwhitecomau.

Fiona Kane:

So it's sam at sam ebelwhitecomau. Ebelwhite. E-b-b-l-e-w-h-i-t-e.

Sam Ebblewhite:

That's correct. That is correct and that's probably the easiest way. But we're going to share my socials as well. That's another avenue that people can contact.

Sam Ebblewhite:

But, you know, if something's kind of intrigued you, I'm more than happy to communicate with people about it, because it's something that I I'm really quite passionate about. Yes, um, and I think you know, just know that you're not alone and there's lots of different avenues of support and help. Um, it's not one size fits all, um, but and and trust your gut as well. Often, often you know we can actually know what we need to do, but it's just finding that balance. Is it that survival side of us trying to keep us small, or is it actually our true instinct taking us on the path we need to go?

Fiona Kane:

So just being discerning with that and peeling back those layers will help that yeah, yeah, the other thing, too, that I would just like to add, because I sort of think it's important to say this we've been talking about the toolkit. You don't have to do it perfectly every day, all the time, and you won't, as if we're not talking about the toolkit as something that you do perfectly. And if you don't do it perfectly, then you're failing and then, therefore, you're starts the story again, right, yeah, okay is a toolkit, and the idea is that you do as much of it you know as you can in whatever balance works for you at the time. And you you know, and what I often just set to ask my clients to do is just sort of say, like, what does self-care look like for me today?

Fiona Kane:

and it might actually mean that I'm not going to go for the walk today because I actually need to have a sleep or it might mean I'm definitely going to go for the walk today because you know I you know if I don't I'm going to explode, you know, whatever it looks like. But it's kind of just. It is okay to kind of play around with it and um and adjust it as you need it, but and you're not failing in it you just sort of say all of it only ever about your next choice. It's only ever about the next choice and the one after that.

Fiona Kane:

But don't use it as another thing to move yourself over taking that moment each day to go.

Sam Ebblewhite:

What do I need today that in itself will change your life. You know that that's so powerful. Um, I used to have a little bit of a line for myself, which was striving to be the best I can, while loving myself as I am, because, you know, some days we do better than others. But hating on ourselves doesn't serve anybody. It doesn't serve us and it certainly doesn't serve anybody else.

Fiona Kane:

Yes, if we use failing, so-called inverted commas, failing at our toolkit as another way to beat ourselves up, then it's not very useful.

Sam Ebblewhite:

To me that means it's not a viable mental health toolkit. It's a weapon kit, which is we don't need any more weapon kits.

Fiona Kane:

Exactly. I just thought it was worth mentioning because I've talked to enough people over the years to know that we like to punish ourselves. We do so. Thank you so much for coming on today. I've really enjoyed talking to you today and thank you for sharing your story. I know it's not always easy, but I appreciate you sharing your story.

Sam Ebblewhite:

Thank you. I really, really appreciate being on this show and having the opportunity to share.

Fiona Kane:

So thanks again, sam, and thank you for everyone who's watching and listening at home. Please like and subscribe and share and tell other people about this podcast. That's how we get the word out there and share these really important messages. And, uh, and you know, thanks again and I'll see you next week where we have real conversations about things that matter. Bye.

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