The Wellness Connection with Fiona Kane

Episode 94 Healing Through Grief: Mick's Journey from Loss to Empowerment

• Fiona Kane • Season 1 • Episode 94

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After wrestling with the heartache of losing her brother to suicide, Mick Rowe went on a a journey of healing that transformed her life. Join us as Mick, the host of the "Suicide Sucks" podcast, shares how grappling with grief led her to explore the profound connection between emotional pain and physical health.

In our conversation, we explore the vital role of genuine human connection in fostering mental well-being, especially in an era where social anxiety is so common. Learn all about the podcast that Mick created, which aims to ditch the stigma by talking openly and honestly about suicide. Tune in to be inspired by Mick's story.

Contacts for Mick Rowe:

Website: https://www.suicidesucks.co.uk/

Spotify: Suicide Sucks

Facebook:

Mick Rowe - https://www.facebook.com/michaela.rowe.775

Suicide Sucks CIC - https://www.facebook.com/suicidesuck5

Tik Tok & Instagram: Suicidesuck5

Stan Store – Digital Reconnect with Nature Experience

https://stan.store/TimeForMeTribe

You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/@SuicideSucks

Learn more about booking a nutrition consultation with Fiona: https://informedhealth.com.au/

Learn more about Fiona's speaking and media services: https://fionakane.com.au/

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Credit for the music used in this podcast:

The Beat of Nature

Music by Olexy from Pixabay



Fiona Kane:

Hello and welcome to the Wellness Connection podcast with Fiona Kane. Today I have another guest and we're going to be talking about a few things, but we're essentially going to be talking about loss and anger and how these things can affect our health. So, without delay, I'm going to introduce Mick Rowe. Hi, Mick.

Mick Rowe:

Hi Fiona.

Fiona Kane:

For those who don't know, you give us a little bit of your background.

Mick Rowe:

Yeah, of course. So my name is Mick Rowe and I host a podcast called Suicide Sucks, which ultimately, I interview guests who have made attempts on their life but are still here to tell the tale. Their life but are still here to tell the tale, hopefully offering hope and showing that you know there is another solution to the problems that people may be suffering from. It took me a long time to get there. I had a lot of anger to deal with because I lost my brother to suicide in 96. And, as a spinoff from the podcast, the importance of health and wellbeing and basically spending time in nature has become a focus for me and I well-being sessions and an online experience to help people really connect with nature.

Fiona Kane:

Yeah, it's such a. It's just something about when I if my headspace isn't so good, I sort of go outside. There's something about nature. It's it's grounding, it's bigger than you, it's. It's a lot of beauty in nature as well. There's just something really healing about nature. It's grounding, it's bigger than you. It's a lot of beauty in nature as well. There's just something really healing about nature, and I know for my own mental health I find it really useful. So it's great that that's part of what you're doing there.

Mick Rowe:

Absolutely so a little bit about how I set up and why I set up Suicide Sucks. So I mentioned that I'd lost my brother to. He took his own life and I think it probably took me a good 25 years to get over it. If I'm honest, I thought I was over it. I thought I dealt with it. I was 22 when it happened and you know, quite quickly after I thought I'd dealt with it.

Mick Rowe:

But you know griefs, oh God, it's um an incredible thing and all those stages that you go through, and not necessarily in any particular order, and it can come at you wham, bam, and that's basically what happened to me. I suffered two slipped discs and sciatica about six years ago and I was completely out of action for about nine months in total. Now that basically that was the emotional pain that I hadn't dealt with, manifesting itself in my body as physical pain and my body was literally saying you need to deal with this and you're not going anywhere until you have. So I went through I mean, I was booked in for an operation and everything uh, micro discectomy and I tried everything. I was one of those that would try anything going. You know, acupuncture, reiki, um mindfulness, which was another thing that did help actually. Um, but, yeah, I tried everything and, strangely, at the same time, my other brother was training to be a kinesiologist in London and he needed somebody to experiment on really. So he used me. And for those who don't know, so he used me. And for those who don't know, kinesiology is a really strange thing. It's very holistic and it takes on about five different categories to do with physical, the physiology aspect of it. It takes on board any allergies and intolerances that your body may have. It uses acupuncture, it uses visualization, so it treats like everything.

Mick Rowe:

And, uh, if I can, I'll tell about the experience that I had where I dealt with the grief, I believe, of my other brother, james. Yeah, so there was this one particular incident where he, my brother, got me to do this visualisation so I would be laid. You know, it was like a treatment bed, laid on a treatment bed bed, and he got me to to tell me what was the biggest emotion I was feeling at that time and I was like anger and he got me to really talk about anger and what was I angry about? And you know, it was James who had taken his own life and and he said right, you know, you know, really, hold on to that anger. He said now what I want you to do is I want you to imagine that you are like a knight in shining armour and you're completely covered in armour it on the floor.

Mick Rowe:

So, you know, suspended my disbelief and started taking these pieces of armor off and throwing them on the floor, bit by bit. And then he said right, there's a big pile now of this metal on the floor. And again he told me to suspend my disbelief. He said we're going to get a match and we're going to light that metal. So I did it and lit it. And he said right, it's now starting to melt and it's getting smaller and smaller until it's a tiny little puddle on the ground, and then there's one little drop and it's gone into the ground and it's gone for good. And then he said right, what I want you to do now is I want you to conjure up that anger that you felt before.

Mick Rowe:

And I was just. I mean, it was silent for a bit, and then I just absolutely burst into hysterics, into laughter. It was. I couldn't do it. I could not recall that deep emotion of anger and I was just lying there on this bed, absolute tears streaming down my face, and then he started laughing and I said you know, don't you? He said what? What I said I can't do it, I can't do it. And it was just the most amazing experience. And I mean it didn't happen instantly, but gradually, like two weeks later. I, I canceled the appointment, the operation, I didn't need it and I, I've been touched, I've not had a problem since, you know, and I am convinced that it was that blockage of the emotion that needed to be released.

Fiona Kane:

I've had a few kinesiologists on the podcast over the last year or so and heard all sorts of amazing stories about how it works for people. And I don't know how it works or why it works, but it seems to work and really there's nothing to lose, is there? So, uh, so it's, it's, it's pretty amazing story and just being able to let go at, did you even, did you even realize that you had that much anger, like, was that, was that sort of obvious to you before that? No, so you didn't realize it.

Mick Rowe:

no, yeah, no, not at all. If somebody had ever asked me, you know, you know how do you feel you're angry about, angry about it and I'd have been like no, no, you know, but yeah, I was like because, when you've lost someone uh, the?

Fiona Kane:

I suppose the last thing you want to do is is um acknowledge any anger around it, and there's so many other feelings that, uh, you know, but it's, I think, in my experience of talking to people who've been through this, I I think that, uh, anger is definitely one of those things that comes up, but it's one of the less sort of acceptable feelings or it doesn't feel right or okay to have that feeling.

Mick Rowe:

Yeah, I think it's looked on as a negative emotion, isn't it? And yet you know, really, we need to embrace all of them, yeah, yeah.

Fiona Kane:

And it's only natural that you would feel all of them as well, because it's just so devastating and so shocking, and I imagine that there'd be a level of you know, because when someone does that, it doesn't just inflict a problem for them, it's their whole family and all their loved ones and everyone who suffers. So I can only imagine you'd be feeling how could you have done this?

Fiona Kane:

to be feeling how could you have done this to us, how could you have done this to me, so yeah, and also the waste, the waste when, when the beautiful life is is gone, uh, you know, the waste about all of the things that could have been and would have been, and all of that.

Mick Rowe:

So I can only imagine that all of those, all of those emotions would have been there yeah, and it wasn't really until, obviously, I dealt with all those emotions that I could then move on and actually do something. You know, I kind of felt like I'd got this chance to now, now that because I felt like I had dealt with it, I could actually do something good. So that's kind of why I set up the podcast, because I kept thinking that what could have helped him and potentially, if he'd have had the opportunity to listen to somebody who was telling their story and it was exactly like his, but this person had made attempts but got through it. I mean, that's got to be a beacon of hope for somebody to think, oh well, I might try what he tried, you know yeah and uh, and, and how are you finding, like, how long have you had this podcast for?

Fiona Kane:

um, how many people have you spoken?

Mick Rowe:

yeah, so I've kind of properly started working on it from March and I so far I've interviewed I think I've got about 15 episodes out there um in September I went on a road trip in my camper van because I actually record the interviews in my camper van.

Mick Rowe:

So it's a little bit quirky, and it's I do it because it's private for a start. You know, nobody can interrupt you, we can stick the kettle on. Uh, I've normally got my dog with me, so he kind of chills everything out a bit as well, and everybody that's come on says that you know, it's a really a really cozy, peaceful and safe, is it?

Fiona Kane:

online or do they come into the camper van with you?

Mick Rowe:

they come into the camper van with me in person. Yes, yeah, it's lovely and I've done a few because I've, because I've had people in america that have wanted to to come on.

Fiona Kane:

I have done a few on zoom and things, but I much prefer the, the face-to-face and for those who didn't pick up the accent, of course everyone knows I'm australian, but you're in the uk, yeah exactly, but so, yeah, the one thing about the podcast as well is that everybody's story is different.

Mick Rowe:

But you're in the UK, yeah, exactly, but so, yeah, the one thing about the podcast as well is that everybody's story is different. Yes, you know, you sometimes worry, don't you, that there's going to be too many similarities with somebody else, and da, da, da, da. But we're all so unique and every time somebody gets in the camper with me, I'm literally my jaw hits the floor because I'm like, oh my God, you know, that's just incredible what you've gone through. So it's really humbling and I love it. I do love it, and we have a bit of a joke as well. It's not like doom and gloom, it's all about hope and positivity.

Fiona Kane:

Yes, yeah, and that's the whole point too, too, because I think that in my experience, our society hasn't been well. I speak for Western society, or at least where I'm from, anyway, in Australia. I know that these issues are things that we haven't. Especially when I was younger, people really didn't talk about these things, or if things like this happened, you know it would be hushed tones and whatever, but no one would actually sort of stop and actually really talk about the issues and talk about what could have made a difference or what might make a difference in the future, all of those things. And so it's really really important to as human beings it's funny because we don't.

Fiona Kane:

We often, often want to avoid exploring the hard stuff, but it's actually the hard stuff. I find that is if you, if you're willing to look at it and you're willing to explore it, that's also, I think, where the most healing comes in and the most uh, where you learn how to be a bit more robust and a bit more resilient in life is when you are willing to talk about and be present with the hard stuff. What are your thoughts?

Mick Rowe:

on that? Yeah, definitely. And I think it's not until you've dealt with the hard stuff that you can attract the good stuff. Because that's another thing. You know we all get into this terrible negative thought loop. You know, once something happens that you know isn't great for us, it's so easy, you know we've all been to a place where you know we just a bit. You know everything's going wrong and it's so easy to take that one thought and for it to become all-encompassing.

Mick Rowe:

And I suppose that is with relation to the common aspects of somebody feeling disconnected if they're having thoughts of taking their own life where nature comes in, own life where nature comes in. And what made me try and tackle that as a way to, you know well, create a connection really, and maybe just having a connection with nature can be the start of connecting with others even. You know, I mean we live in a society now that there's so little connection, you know, and sociable contact, and I just think it's really important that we find that sense of connection. So I do sessions locally, in person, where we spend the hour practicing gratitude, we awaken our senses. We do it in this place called the Healing Grove.

Mick Rowe:

I mean you couldn't get any better. We do an activity which is art-based or word-based, and then we do some grounding and I'm always amazed that people will even if it's freezing cold here in the UK, you know, get their socks and shoes off and, you know, join me in a visualization to you know, really ground and it's such a, it's such a lovely feeling that you're not just connected with the earth, but you're connected with the people around you. It's amazing that you're not just connected with the earth, but you're connected with the people around you.

Fiona Kane:

It's amazing. Yes, yeah, and you're right in regards to connection, and I say this over and over again because it comes up on so many episodes. But you know, when we look at the longest study on longevity and on keeping your faculties for as long as possible, they were looking for the answer to what it was, that it wasn't going to be a cholesterol number or what factor was it going to be?

Fiona Kane:

And it came down to connection and it came down to someone having your back as being the most important things for longevity and for that cognitive function as we get older. And it's weird because we're in this world now like where you and I are on opposite sides of the world having this conversation. So in some ways now we're more connected than ever, but we are but we aren't, so it's more of a discombobulated connection where we might have, you know, people will have so many, there'll be an influencer or they'll have so many followers or they get so many likes on every time they do a post or a photo or something like that. But there's a big difference between someone liking your post or whatever, and real connection, and it's real connection that I think that we're missing out on more than ever now.

Mick Rowe:

Absolutely yeah, and I think there's a missing out on more than ever now. Absolutely yeah, and I think there's a lot of people who are stuck in their homes as well. You know, I mean, I know there's not lockdown anymore, but there are some people who I still don't think are comfortable leaving their houses. I mean, the rates for things like agoraphobia and, you know, social anxiety, they're just huge. Yes, and in fact, I've got relatives who have agoraphobia, and that was one of the reasons why I designed this. It's only a short online experience, but I did a course with the University of Derby here and it basically it's now scientifically proven that the benefits of connecting with nature are the same if you do it digitally. So having audios and videos and really immersing yourself within those can have the same benefits. And that's mind-blowing, matt. I think that's incredible.

Fiona Kane:

So if you're listening to it on your meditation app and you're listening to on your, you know your meditation app.

Fiona Kane:

And you're listening to a storm or you know whatever the sound is a natural sounds that will still work yeah, yeah, it's incredible yeah, yeah, a friend of mine does hypnotherapy and and she she explained a study to me once where I think it was like a basketball team and they did the comparison between a basketball team that did lots and lots of practice a basketball team that did lots and lots of practice and also did visualizations of winning the game and a basketball team that only laid on the court and did visualizations. Wow, and it was the ones that did the visualizations only. I think that were the ones that actually had the most success.

Mick Rowe:

So they laid there on the court and imagined how the game would go, and it is very powerful that is amazing and I believe, like a lot of the Olympic teams do the same thing now they have like kind of a spiritual coach or well-being coach. That will encourage this whole visualization.

Fiona Kane:

yeah, and it's the same with um with power poses. So I think her name was amy cuddy. I did a ted talk about those and she was. If I'm talking about the right person, I think it's the right person anyway.

Fiona Kane:

Um, and she talked about power poses and uh, and she did studies that I think it might have been harvard or somewhere, and uh, they found so the power poses are like where you kind of do like Wonder Woman or Superman and you sort of stand in those stance, you know so Wonder Woman's, you know the legs apart, yeah, which is anyone listening and not watching.

Fiona Kane:

You know the Wonder Woman pose where she's got her hands on her hips sort of thing, or Superman would be, you know, the arms in the air, air, like Superman. What they found is that when you do that it reduces your stress hormones and increases your testosterone, which helps you get through a challenging event. So they looked at it for things like exams or job interviews or that kind of thing. But they also found that it worked, even if someone who wasn't able to do that maybe someone who's not physically able to to do that pose. But if they imagined themselves doing the pose, they also got the same benefit because they were testing the hormones and things. So, yeah, you're absolutely right, that's very powerful what we can do, whether it be a meditation app or whether it be the videos or whatever. Yeah, really, really powerful stuff.

Fiona Kane:

So it's great if you can get out into nature and you know, obviously I'd highly advise it. And the difference is that, you know I'm in Australia now where it's, you know, 30 to 40 degrees, which actually is a bit too hot, the other way Celsius, and you're somewhere where it's like 11 degrees top of 11 today that you said.

Mick Rowe:

Yeah, I and you're somewhere where it's like 11 degree top of 11. Today I think you said I don't even get that in summer, you know. I mean it's like the hottest because honestly, I mean maybe 28 every now and then, but 21 is the norm.

Fiona Kane:

Yes, yes, I always have a bit of a laugh actually, because in winter here, if I'm feeling a bit sad about the weather, I always look up the weather. I know it's not where you are, but I always I look, I look up the weather in Glasgow, right? So when is rain here and cold in Glasgow in their summer than it is here in our winter in Sydney? So I was like, okay, I looked at the weather in Glasgow, I feel better about winter in Sydney. Now I'm going to get over myself. That's brilliant, I love it.

Fiona Kane:

So I know we haven't got a lot of time, but just with the time we do have, I suppose just a little bit more about. Look, I think that what you're doing is amazing and I think it's really powerful and I feel like getting that message out, especially now, because podcasts are just such, they're the way to go, they're so powerful and so accessible that this is making a real difference and you must at some level, sort of feel like you know if there's even one person that you could save, that you know sort of in your brother's name sort of thing. It's like someone who doesn't go through what your family's been through, you know that it's worked, yeah.

Mick Rowe:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm so obviously so passionate about it and the fact that people want to talk about it is also so evident. You know they want to chat and they want to chat about all of it. You know, now I have to. I do have to cut some out, because there's certain things you're not allowed to talk about, which frustrates me, because they want to talk about it and actually to me, somebody listening might not feel so alone or think that they're the only ones who have ever felt like that if they were to hear all of the nitty-gritty. So there's certain things we can't touch on.

Mick Rowe:

But it is still very open and honest and, as ever with things like this, this it's never just one thing. You know, there's normally four or five things and they've all started to just, you know, buck up against each other, and then there's one thing that will break the camel's back, so to speak, and and and. That's they'll talk about it all, but they'll all have a different thing that helped them, be it. A lot of people might have the talking therapies that are really big. That's helped them, but then for someone else, they don't do something physical or practical. So that's really interesting as well, that there's a different way for each person that got them through it, so to speak. The last lady I spoke to. It was all about art and creativity and that was just what somehow she connected with and that then got her through each day. So it's very special to hear the stories and I'm always so excited to get a new member in the camper van. And you know I've obviously got lots booked in and lots to come up.

Fiona Kane:

Yeah, and I actually think that's a really important point that you raised there too, with all of the different things that work for different people. Because I find this now that even just you know, there's a big push in the last few years in regards to men's health and men's mental health. You know, for very good reason, and I, you know, we sort of. I find that sometimes we, when we're talking about, oh, you know, men should do this, or men should do that, or they should talk more or whatever, and look, obviously it's great if they can and there's, like you said, there's nothing wrong with talk therapy and being able to talk and all those things.

Fiona Kane:

But I think it is actually important whether it's men, woman, whoever, but it's important to acknowledge that just different things might be the key for different people and it doesn't it. There's not one, you know, there's not one way of doing this and in so. So for some people they will really benefit from the talking and they've got to learn to open up more and talk, and someone else might not be that way inclined, but it doesn't mean there's not other useful strategies that will help them, and I think it is. It is good to be open to that and so, absolutely, if people listen to those episodes, there might be one where they think, oh, I just don't relate to that at all, but another one they'll listen to and go, okay, there's the key in, and that's the thing.

Fiona Kane:

It's like finding that key in for that person and we're not, all you know, like I could talk to the cows. Come home and I'm a woman and I like to talk about my feelings and my thoughts and you can't shut me up.

Fiona Kane:

But not everyone not everyone is me and I sort of you can't sort of put that onto other people, oh, you should do it this way or whatever. So I actually really love that. It's just opening up the conversation of what are all the different ways that people can, uh, can, yeah and sometimes it's not even the first.

Mick Rowe:

You know they've tried four or five things before they've got to the one that works. So yeah, and I mean the age range as well, I mean I've got. There's a girl who's in her 20s who suffered bulimia rape. Um, lost a job, lost her fiance, so much and then to a man in his he's 70 now.

Mick Rowe:

He's one of my best mates who went who who lost his job. He was a really high-powered career man and he lost his job in his 30s to a back injury and he was basically told he would never work again and he was top of his company with a family to support. And that was just the start for him and he had a terrible alcohol problem which led to other things and it's it's amazing that the the breadth of things that people have to deal with and are happy to talk about.

Fiona Kane:

Yeah, for sure. And is there anything in, I suppose, in sort of winding up? Is there anything in particular? Because obviously this is a huge topic? We could talk for hours, but we don't have hours today, but is there anything that you have learned, or any lessons that you've learned that you think that would be really valuable for my listeners and watchers today in regards to this topic, any sort of wisdom that you could share?

Mick Rowe:

I think a couple of things. I think just being open, as open as you can be, to trying something new. So if there are people who are your listeners who are having thoughts of ending their own life, there is support there and it doesn't have to be the medical kind, which often doesn't work for people because that person hasn't necessarily stood in their shoes. You know, there's an amazing community online now and I think it's really important that, whether somebody admits it or not, we have all had dark days and you know it's important to know whatever's going on and whatever people portray.

Mick Rowe:

Everybody's been at that low point and it might be that if you talk about it to them, it could help them. So that's another thing. People worry, I think, that they're going to be a burden on other people, but maybe you don't know what's going on in that person's mind. You could inadvertently be helping them. Yes, biggest thing that I can recommend to anybody who is worried about somebody is to ask the question, is to literally say not, are you okay? You know how's it going, but are you having suicidal thoughts? Because as soon as you use the language, the person you're talking to, the person you're talking to, you can see them physically like relaxed, because you've opened up, you've lifted the barrier, you've opened up the dialogue and that person realizes that they don't have to hide anything, okay, so, not being afraid of just being naming the elephant in the room, being really blunt and just saying it as it is, as opposed to kind of like pussyfooting around oh, are you okay.

Fiona Kane:

So it's like just that really direct can make all the difference because it sort of like puts a spotlight on and and and kind of opens the door for them. Like you said, uh, that ability to kind of oh, I've been seen. Okay, because it's such a hidden thing, isn't that too, that they sort of uh, you know, and before, when you said in regards to sharing, yeah, it's first of all, when you see how many people go through these issues, uh, we're talking about connection. It's so common. So, you know, people think it's just them, but it's so, not just them. But the other thing too is that you know, it's that kind of whole thing that when you do share, when you, when you reach out for help or when you share, or when you tell your story, you give other people permission, uh, to share or to ask for help or to whatever it is.

Fiona Kane:

But it's like sometimes the people around us are actually there, or everyone, a lot of people in a situation, and it might not be this situation, but whatever the situation is, there might be a group of people and they're all thinking the same thing and one person gives permission for the group to actually say something, and then everyone says, oh, oh god, we can.

Fiona Kane:

You know, we can do this now, you know. So sometimes, uh, people are waiting for or needing permission somehow and you're doing that helps them. But also sometimes, the whole being a burden thing. Sometimes actually asking someone to step up and help you, as much as it might feel like it's being a burden, it's actually empowering the other person as well, because sometimes we need to step up and sometimes that part of our journey is that we need to step up and undo these things, and so you're kind of, you're almost like stopping someone from having the journey that they need to have by not letting them step up and be and be there for you. So there's so many layers to this, but I don't think it really is. Uh, let people, uh, let people help you, because sometimes they need to help you absolutely yeah.

Fiona Kane:

So that's really powerful and I'm, you know, I'm so glad that you found some healing around, uh, what happened in your family and the loss of your brother, and I'm so glad that sort of you know in in, I suppose, somewhat in his name or in his, uh, in his memory that you are, you know, you're moving forward and doing something so powerful that I think will make a lot of difference to people. So I'm just so happy you're doing that and you know, and congratulations for turning around something that is, you know, such a huge challenge in your life but turning it into something beautiful and something constructive. Oh, thank you.

Mick Rowe:

Yeah.

Fiona Kane:

So if people want to, obviously I will put all of your details in the show notes, but if anyone wants to get in contact with you, what's the best place for them to find you and find your podcast?

Mick Rowe:

Yeah, so the podcast is on Spotify and it is called Suicide Sucks, and then I've got a Facebook page as well by the same name, so people can follow me on there. People can can follow me on there, um, and you know, I mean, I I get funding every now and then to to do things like this, which is fantastic, um, but sharing, the power of sharing, is all I need. I just I would love for people to be signposted to the podcast. You know, if you know someone who's struggling, they might find a story on there that resonates with them and can help.

Fiona Kane:

Yeah. So it might be someone who's struggling, it might be someone who feels that they can help you somehow in what you're doing, but whatever it is, but I will put those links into the show notes as well. Thank you so much, mick. I really appreciate you sharing a story and sharing with me what you're doing. It's really great to hear stories of where people are empowering themselves and empowering others and trying to make a difference in this world. So thank you so much. Oh, thank you, fiona. It's been a pleasure. For those of you listening and watching at home, I really appreciate that you watch and you listen. Please like, subscribe, share and rate the podcast so more people hear about it, because we need these stories to get out there and we need to share stories like this because they are so important, and here at the Wellness Connection we like to have real conversations about things that matter, and this is one of those things. So thank you everybody, and I will see you all again next week. Thank you.

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